Illicit Liaisons

Illicit Liaisons: Mariah Ankeman & Disability Representation in Romance

• Jenna Harte • Season 2 • Episode 11

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This week, our guest host is author Mariah Ankenman. We discuss hot takes around the author ARCs, disability representation in romance fiction, #authorapril, and book adaptations we'd love to watch.

Mariah Ankeman is a bestselling  romance author living in the beautiful Rocky Mountains with her two rambunctious children and loving spouse, who is her own personal spell checker when her dyslexia gets the best of her. Mariah loves to lose herself in a world of words. Her favorite thing about writing is when she can make someone’s day a little brighter with one of her books.

MARIAH'S LINKS

Website: https://mariahankenman.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mariahankenman/
Mariah's Amazon Author Page: https://amzn.to/4t84Rjr

Backstage Night with the Billionaire by Mariah Ankenman https://amzn.to/3OIyk50

AUTHORS & BOOKS MENTIONED ON THE SHOW

Talia Hibbert https://amzn.to/48hKiJB
E.V. Mitchell https://amzn.to/4tX0HLN
In Death Books by J.D. Robb https://amzn.to/3Owa32f
Fox & O'Hare books by Janet Evanovich and Lee Goldberg https://amzn.to/4mGckEw
Evelina by Frances Burney https://amzn.to/4cEfyUx

READING & RECOMMENDED

Lore Olympus Vol 9 by Rachel Smythe https://amzn.to/4tVxsZQ
The Other Bennett Sister by Janice Hadlow https://amzn.to/4tqPiUD
Jane Austen at Home by Lucy Worsley https://amzn.to/4cFOhRs
Shadow of Betrayal by Eva LeClerc https://evaleclercauthor.substack.com/

TENDER & TEMPTING TALES

Tender and Tempting Tales Substack: Subscribe and get a FREE story! https://tenderandtemptingtales.substack.com/

Tender and Tempting Tales on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tendertemptingtales/

Calls for Submissions: https://tenderandtemptingtales.substack.com/p/write-for-tender-and-tempting-tales

ILLICIT LIAISONS PRODUCED & HOSTED BY

Tara Leederman Substack: https://taleederman.substack.com/

Jenna Harte: https://jennaharte.com/

Outline and Show Notes: T.A. Leederman
Editing: Jenna Harte

SPEAKER_03

Hello, romance readers. Welcome to Illicit Liaisons with Tender and Tempting Tales, where each week we discuss the good, the bad, and the naughty of romance fiction. I am Jenna Hart. I am a romance author of the contemporary romance series of Southern Heat and the Sexy Valentine mystery series. And I'm also the managing editor of Tender and Tempting Tales, a steamy romance anthology for readers who like romantic quickies.

SPEAKER_00

Hi, I'm Tara Lederman, social media manager here at Tender and Tempting Tales, and Laura Maven, a main fiction writer for Starship Valkyrie, a science fiction game and story universe. I write science fiction stories, including romance, and you can often find me in our anthologies online and running Valkyrie at Strategicon.

SPEAKER_03

And today we're very excited to have a guest, Mariah, a best-selling romance author. Mariah lives in the beautiful Rocky Mountains with her two rambunctious children and a loving spouse who is her own personal spell checker when her dyslexia gets the best of her. Mariah loves to lose herself in a world of words. Her favorite thing about writing is when she can make someone's day a little brighter with one of her books. And of course, you are going to find links to Mariah in our show notes just to tell you what it is. It's Mariahenckman.com and her Instagram is also at MariahEnckenman.com. And welcome. So thank you so much for being with us today. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. Uh here at Elicit Liaisons, we like to talk about bookish news, hot takes, the tea, if you will, in the bookish world, uh, and like to see what our guests are thinking about things. Um, some of the news that has just come up is we know that uh at least for authors, uh, readers might not realize this, but uh Draft to Digital is now gonna start charging fees. Draft to Digital for our readers is one of the platforms authors can use to distribute their particularly their ebooks through a variety of sources, including to libraries uh and to other places beyond Amazon. It's always been free, and now they're gonna start charging a few fees for that. Uh, and it seems in line with a lot of other places that are also charging fees now uh that hadn't charged before. And then, of course, we also learned that Kindle is going to be ending support for some of the really old models of Kindle. I think you could still read what you got on there, you just can't access the store and do all that kind of stuff. Um, so I don't know. I never have any sort of digital item that's old enough to fall out. I mean, I love my gadgets. I don't know. What do you guys think about the Kindle thing?

SPEAKER_01

Like, is that gonna hurt readers or I will be honest, I have a Kindle, but I mostly read on my iPhone and my iPad. Yeah, like I have a Kindle, it's got my cute little never-ending story book cover on it. I love it. Oh cute. But uh but honestly, like I read on my phone most of the time with the Kindle app, but I do think it is like kind of unfair that you spent so much money on a device and then all of a sudden they're like, Nope, we're not supporting it anymore. Now you have to buy the new one. Give us more money. It's like, come on, Amazon, you're do you really need more money? No, no, you don't. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I yeah, I have an old device actually from the beginning of my PhD from 2012 that is probably going to get phased out pretty soon because I think the first ones they're doing are 2010, and I'm pretty sure that mine will get phased out. I actually have paperwork white from 2013 when I started my reading year, so I'm a little concerned about that. I think the reason they're doing it might have something to do with some kind of reverse compatibility thing that they don't want to manage anymore to make sure that new books coming out have a special feature and stuff, and they're probably adding like compatibility for features for things like the color soft, uh, and they don't want to make sure that it still works on the really old models, you know, like that, even though they haven't gotten a new update for their hardware in a long time, um, there's still going to be compatibility issues and they don't want to support that anymore. Uh, that's my guess. I do not know that for certain. Um, if I could think of a reason why they would do that other than to extract more money out of people, that's the one that I would think of. I still think that like it would be better for them to make most books available and just say this is only for the ColorSoft for certain books, if it has that kind of like a compatibility issue, rather than just across the across the board and support. I think for most books, people could continue to use the candle of those candles and it would be fine. They they can just read text on it. The big problem to me is that people, if they have to reset these models, which they're older, sometimes they do need a reset, they they won't be able to get their libraries back onto them. And that's the thing that really frustrates me. It's you know, I understand not wanting to continue supporting them compatibility-wise, but ending support entirely so they can't get back on the store and re-resync your library, that seems unnecessary to me. Yeah, agreed.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. I, as I had mentioned earlier when this came up, uh, you know, I can see if you have an older Kindle, it's working just fine. You know, why make it tough? It probably hasn't had an update in over a decade, but if it's working, like, you know, why not just let them be? The can compatibility makes a compelling argument because if you have to have multiple versions of a book in order for it to work on multiple versions of a I could see because that takes up storage, that takes up time. Yeah, but I also think I was comparing this to Apple, which is always doing stuff like this, right? I mean, you can have an Apple device for only a couple of years and all of a sudden it's rendered, you know, unusable or whatever. So I, you know, uh as far as fussing about that sort of thing, if this is the first time Kindle's done it, I'm like, okay, whatever. Plus, you do have your Kindle app that you can you don't even need a Kindle for that.

SPEAKER_01

You cancel your stuff through your app. I can't remember the last time I actually read on my Kindle. Because I'm usually out and about and I'm like, well, my phone's right here. It's just so much easier.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. I do think that they will accelerate doing this. I think more models will go into the income in the incompatibility bin after this, after it's been accepted by readers. This is the thing that people were warning about when it came to digital media years ago. You know, from between 2006 and 2012, there were a lot of people warning about. But I mean, between you iTunes and like if you don't really own your media, you're only you're kind of only renting it, this could happen to you.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Uh and and now we're running into it. I'm actually shocked. I'm actually a little surprised that these Kindles were supported as long as they were to be completely honest with you.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Well, I think a lot of them uh didn't necessarily have updates, they just continued to work, right?

SPEAKER_00

Uh our biggest drama this week, a YouTuber, what Michael Reeds uh did a video recently about issues in the ARC pipeline, the honesty of reviews, how ARC decisions get made, who gets ARCs, uh, and how book influencers behave around ARCs. And Mariah, we were wondering like, what do you think about the current state of arcs, reviews, bookish influencers, and what's been your experience so far?

SPEAKER_01

Oh man, there's so many thoughts surrounding ARCs and so many big feelings. So for my traditionally published books, obviously my publisher mostly handles the ARCs and the net galley stuff. And then when I do indie books, I will use like a book promo service to run like my net galley. So I am one of those authors who like I don't want to have any like connection to that. I don't want to pressure readers, I don't want to handle the ARC team, I don't want to do any of that. That feels very invasive and like very not where I want to be. So I let other people do that for me. Personally, I appreciate any review I get, even bad ones, because you know, then that proves that you're not paying people for reviews, which is don't do that. It's not not a good thing to do. Um, I appreciate all reviews. I also appreciate not being tagged if they're bad reviews. Like it's fine if you hate my book. You don't have to tell me about it. That's okay, that's for other people. Um, but yeah, there's a lot of people have big, big feelings about arcs. And as an author, I like to let someone else handle the arcs because that's not my space. Like, as they say, reviews are for readers, and that's what an arc is. It is an advanced reader copy so that they can review the book before it comes out to let the readers know, hey, here's what's in this book, here's what I liked about it, here's what I didn't like about it. At that point, as the author, the book is done. There's nothing I can do about it, so I don't need to know. That's that's for everyone else to know. That's not for me.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Recently, though, this a different booktuber talked about there being like a person tagged the author saying, If I don't get an arc, I'm not gonna ever read your book.

SPEAKER_01

I saw that. That's so mean. Half the time we don't even have control over who gets our arcs.

SPEAKER_00

Like, yeah, she was like, I did I have a promo surface doing this, I have nothing to do with it. Like, but it was just I couldn't believe she tagged her. I was like, oh my god, like what are you doing?

SPEAKER_03

And it wasn't an indie author, it was like a St. Martin Press author, right? Like it was a big five-author, like really have no control. She's threatening me. This it's so weird to me sometimes how how I guess humans are such that they can create drama anywhere, including in the book world, right? Like, especially in the book world. It's a bit you know, a solitary activity, and yet we go online and well, and of course, you know, loud and clear authors here, you need to stay out of the reader, reader community. You need to, you know, reviews are for, you know, um, and so the idea that a a reader would tag an author so that they know for sure I didn't like their book all the time.

SPEAKER_01

They don't want us to come visiting, you need to like not tag us, right? Exactly. We will stay out of your space.

SPEAKER_03

Stop bringing us into it. Yeah. The arc thing I found interesting with Michaela was that she was talking as a creator who gets books. So it was an interesting sort of to see her take on it. And she was sort of calling out other creators that seemed to create status by getting arcs from the big five. Um, felt that maybe some of them were disingenuous about their reviews because they were getting these books. Possibly she's getting less books because she is giving truthful reviews and they're not always very great. You know, I mean, there was a whole wide, she went through a lot of things on there that I thought as an author that makes this really difficult for us because, you know, we're relying on you who read and talk about books to um to provide something. And now, you know, sort of like, well, wait a minute, what am I getting? I mean, I've heard she said some businesses will tell people not to leave a review if it's under three. And I did want to see a PA go after readers who are leaving fours or something, and so that's all wrong. It just I just thought, why is this so getting complicated? And she even talked about doing uh a sponsored review for somebody, and I'm in my mind, I'm like, well, that would be that would be even more pressure to say something good, and she said, but you know, but no, I only do it and I'm only honest and whatever. And I'm like, well, what's the difference when the people get the book for free? Right? Same thing. We have to trust that they're gonna be honest. I also wondered uh when she talked about getting less book reviews, there's also an effort, I think. I mean, I don't know why she's getting less books to review, but what if it were a situation where they're noticing she tends to review these types of books not very well? That's what my book is. She may not be the best. The same way we gotta find regular readers, right? If if I'm if I'm sending out the Valentine books and people are saying I don't like the spicy bits, then I'm like, okay, not them. Right. I'm not sending it to them because they're all gonna have a spicy bit, right? So I don't know. It's just why is it so complicated?

SPEAKER_00

She tried to talk about it from the perspective of like a marketing company or a social media manager and stuff. Like, you know, of course they're gonna want to send it to people who have really big followings. And I I totally relate to that, right? Like, I want to get our books to people with big followings as well. Um, and she said, and of course they want to send it to people who only give high reviews. And I disagreed with that. I mean, like, I could see the the social media manager who felt that way. But when she said that she gave honest reviews, that she read the books, that she had integrity, my immediate reaction was, I want to send you our anthologies because I don't want marketing copy in the reviews that makes it feel like people didn't read the book. I don't want all of our reviews to say things like that, right? Like I want it to be, I read this book and it's obvious I read this book because here are my thoughts, not just this is a scintillating anthology of like of holiday stories or anything like that that just feels like blands that you could have gotten from the back cover. And I understand everyone has their own reasons for for reviewing arcs. Like they're not doing it out of the goodness out of their heart, they're doing it to to expand their presence. They're doing it because you know, they they like they want more people to see their their Goodreads or their their Instagram, and they want to receive free books and they want to be part of the community and have things to talk about. Like there are more reasons than just I'm doing this for authors out there. And you have to be like, you have to be open-eyed about that as a social media manager or an indie author, because you're kind of your own indie social media manager as well. Um, but yeah, I mean, I I I really want reviewers who feel like they've actually read the book so that their reviews are helpful to other readers who might want to be might want to decide if they're gonna read the book or not. And I feel like like an ad copy arc review doesn't help anybody make that decision. And like readers are smart, they'll they'll see that and be like, oh, this person like they're just reviewing it this way because they received it for free. It doesn't look real, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I don't think she's our reader though, so I think she's a thriller reader.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, she's a thriller reader, right? But like just a person like that. Like I wouldn't want to reach her immediately, right? She's not like one of our little romance readers, but like someone like that who said that. I'd be like, absolutely, please read this. Rake us over the coals if you must, but read it.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

But I you know the other thing I think we need to remember is readers who go online and start talking or sharing about books, they aren't doing it for authors, they're doing it because they love books and they want to share the books they love. And then out of that, they start getting free books, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

It's a community, they want to talk to each other, they're not doing it for us, you know. They don't understand they have their own reasons for what they do.

SPEAKER_03

And it must be exciting to start getting books in the mail and stuff. I mean, I there was a time I I was doing work online where every now and then I get some books in the mail. That was kind of fun, you know. I I I get it, I get it. Uh the other part of that is if they're getting a lot, she talked about getting one almost every day for a time. And then it becomes, how do you review all that, right? That's too many. And and there have been questions in the review world about whether or not these readers are k are able to read all the books uh that they have.

SPEAKER_00

Someone on Goodreads who had over 5,000 reviews. And I was like, How are you 200 years old? How do you have that many reviews? I don't understand. Like, that's amazing to me, just absolutely incredible. I and I don't I don't know that I doubt it so much as I'm just stunned by it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But there are people who read a lot, particularly in romance.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So, you know, good for them. I wish I I have started simultaneously reading and listening to a book. Well, not at the same time, but like if I could sit, I'll read it. But if I'm moving about, I'm listening to it, you know, and then I just have to mark you know where I did. I try to end on a chapter so I can go right to it, whether on my phone or whether and I do find I'm getting through it faster that way. Um, because it's been busy and I haven't been able to run around a lot. All right, more news or more hot takes here. Cyclical nature of hot takes in the online book is what goes around comes around all the time. Tara, I wrote this question. It was romance novels not meeting a happily ever after. And I'm like, when when has that ever been okay?

SPEAKER_00

Well, yeah, this is a fun thing that comes up over and over again.

SPEAKER_03

But I do know, you know, some in the cliffhanger thing, because I have one on my shelf that I refuse to read. Uh, but then also reading romance doesn't count as real reading. Or if you're listening, I just admitted to listening sometimes. When I'm listening, I guess I'm not reading technically. What are what are some of your thoughts about any of that or any hot takes you have about some of the craziness that comes up?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I the romance doesn't need a happy ending, is a hill I will die on so much that I put it in my upcoming book and I have the characters arguing about it in Backstage Night with the Billionaire. And the funny thing is, is is there so she's doing an aerial production of Romeo and Juliet, her aerial company is, and she's like, It's the greatest romance ever. And he's like, didn't like six people die in that play? That's not a romance, it's a cautionary tale. Because people love, they love when you say romance needs a happy ending. They're like, What about Romeo Juliet? And I'm like, first of all, that's a play. Second, it's called the tragedy of Romeo and Juliet.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Third, go away.

SPEAKER_00

It also predates the genre of romance, not a comparison. This is from the freaking like, gosh, it's it's from the from the like this the 16th century. Like they didn't count.

SPEAKER_01

And they had tragedy and comedy. That's what they had. Tragedy and comedy and histories, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

They didn't do like genre romance novels. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So no, romance, capital R, romance needs a happily ever after or a happy for now. And if it's a a series, like a you know, three book series, it's okay for the first one to have a cliffhanger as long as you know they're gonna get together in the end. But if it's a romance book, has to have the happy ending. Not arguing with anyone. I have straight up blocked people from my life because they wanted to argue with me about it. I'm like, nope, you're done. We're done. I love it.

SPEAKER_03

I love it. You you and I are best friends now. I'm the same way. I mean, it's the whole point, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It's the one rule. Yeah, the one rule.

SPEAKER_03

It's the agreement between author and reader. Happily ever. It's sort of like having a mystery that isn't solved at the end, right?

SPEAKER_01

We're like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Or a horror book that's not scary at all. Yeah. Like what is what is the point? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. It's like genres I look at this academically, unfortunately, which is that like genres have conventions, and woe be unto you if you break the conventions, right? Like readers have certain expectations. And like, yes, there are tropes you can choose from among tropes. That's that's fair. But like happily ever after is not a trope, it's a convention of the genre. Do I think you could write some kind of lovely women's fiction where things end in a bittersweet way, but you grab a little bit from romance? Sure, that would be artistic and lovely, but it wouldn't be genre convention romance, you know, outside of the genre. If you kill your daddies, if you kill well, in here, if you kill your mommies in in in romance, you will be outside of the genre, and you just have to accept that, and that's okay. But it it puts you outside of the genre immediately.

SPEAKER_01

Then your book just has romantic elements. And that's what I tell people when they're like, but it's a love story and then they die. I'm like, then it's fiction with romantic elements. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yes. And I and I do think people get stuck on that. When I used to be an agent, you know, I get stuff sent to me all the time that they try to squeak into romance, and I'd be like, This ain't that, right? And sometimes it even ended well, but I was like, this still isn't that because this story really isn't about the two of them, right? It was more likely what I don't know if they call it women's fiction anymore, but you know, that's sort of where it landed. It was sort of like Bridget Jones type of thing. It was funny. She ends up with Mark Darcy, but still not technically romance, right? It's really a Bridget, it's about her and her company.

SPEAKER_00

I'd be like calling Devilwear's Prada a romance because there's a romance in it somewhere. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, that's right. Well, then there's Weathering Heights, the greatest romance ever written, or whatever.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I know, you're getting started there.

SPEAKER_03

I know, right? Like, wait, what? She they're dead in the beginning. How could that be?

SPEAKER_00

It's older and it influences a lot of romance authors, I think. So people think of it, it's like in their personal canon of like romantic stories. I understand why because you read it when you're 14, you're thinking about genre conventions. I understand why people are confused. But also, like those people, I would say, like, go go read it again now that you're an adult and think about it.

SPEAKER_03

Stop watching the movies, right? Because they never even do the whole thing.

SPEAKER_00

All right. Let's get on to so let's go, let's talk about Mariah here. Yeah. All right. So, Mariah, my dear, we know you're a huge advocate for disability representation and romance. And I want to talk to you about what sorts of disability representation you've written so far in your books.

SPEAKER_01

I have, oh my goodness, I have so many. I have a lot of neurodivergent rep. I have autism, ADHD, OCD, uh, dyslexia, audio processing disorder. And then I also have a lot of chronic illnesses, fibromyalgia, um, POTS, celiac disease, allergies, and a lot of glasses, which people always, every time I mention, yes, this has disability rep because my characters wear glasses. They're like, that's not a disability. And I'm like, actually it is, because I cannot. Function without my glasses. Like in the zombie apocalypse, if my glasses get broken, I'm eaten first. I'm eaten first. That's what's happening. Because everybody's, you know, vision is a spectrum, just like every disability. So some people can function without their glasses. But for the characters that I write and for myself personally, I can't legally cannot drive without my glasses. I cannot write. I cannot read. I can if I'm moving around in an unfamiliar place, I have to like have my hands out in front of me because I can't see five inches in front of my face. Like if I'm doing makeup, my mirror, yeah, my vision.

SPEAKER_00

You're like me.

SPEAKER_01

You're just like really bad. Yeah. And so when I give characters glasses, people are like, that's not a disability. I'm like, yes, it is. These are my ability aid. I need them to function. Vision is totally a disability. It's just on a spectrum like everything else, depending on how good or bad it is.

SPEAKER_00

So a lot of people are in this, I think, in the negative four diopter range, and I think that they don't realize how different that can be from being into the like severe or even moderate range of myopia. I actually just recently had LASIK and like people were sort of like, oh, this cosmetic. I'm like, you don't understand. I had negative eight diopters of correction. Oh wow. That's almost basically it's like legally blind. Like when they they left me alone in the room at the surgical prep without my glasses, and I had this horrible moment of like, oh my God, if there's an earthquake, I'm dead. I can't find anything. I can't find the door. I knew where the door was because she had just gone out of it, but I had just an awful, awful moment of like, I need to get this done because I can't see anything. If there's a if there is any kind of disaster, I am going to die without my glasses. And I'm really glad that they did it. I mean, there's just a big difference between like having a little bit of correction and having like, I can't find my glasses without my glasses level of correction. Like it created more like mutating and morphing at the sides of my vision and and migraines and stuff because I had these really thick glasses and they have to do weird things to even fit them into frames. Eventually I had to go frameless because I didn't fit no matter what I did. So yeah, people don't understand that like there's a big difference between like needing a little correction and being outright blind. Yeah. Well, I love that you do that.

SPEAKER_03

I would wonder with how common glasses or contacts is, we don't know, that it almost makes it seem normal, right? And so they don't see it as but I also remember growing up and I'm old, I'm older than both of you, uh wearing glasses. There was sort of a stigma attached to it. Yes, right? You four eyes, and and I I mentioned I was reading the other Bennett sister, and when she gets she decides to get glasses so she can read. She's having trouble reading, and and Mrs. Bennett just her head explodes, right? Um, because how that would look and and all this stuff. So we've come, you know, it's like we've come all this way, and now glass everybody's got glasses. I mean, we've heard people wear them just to look smart, even though it's like glass, yeah, no prescription. Uh so I wonder, you know, if if that's part of the attitude of, well, that's no big deal, you know. But yeah, if you struggle, uh my eyesight isn't as bad as either of yours, but uh like yeah, life would be would definitely be more difficult. If I didn't readers and contacts.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So the thing, nice thing about romance is we are seeing a lot of representation in all sorts of areas, including in disability. I'm I'm just curious, with you writing and writing a variety of different types, are there any challenges that you have run into either in terms of writing it or maybe even the reception of it, somebody reading it and having thoughts?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think there's always challenges, especially if you're writing outside your lived experience. Most of my disability rep comes from lived experience, but some is outside. I am autistic, but I am not ADHD. However, my spouse, my oldest, my sister, surrounded by people with ADHD. Um I also don't have celiac, but a lot of the people in my family do. My sister does, uh, my niece. So um, with those books, that's when you have to be extra, extra careful to make sure you're getting the representation right. But even when you write from a lived experience, like with my OCD, with my autism, all that stuff, um you're gonna have people that are like, well, this isn't like mine at all. And so I try to inform the readers of that and be like, hey, this is just one person's experience, because every everything in the world, every disability, every person, every job, everything is on a spectrum and everybody experiences it differently. There is no monolith, there's no one experience that's universal. It's all different. And so someone might read my book with OCD rep and be like, oh my gosh, that's so accurate. That's exactly how I feel. You know, those compulsions are exactly what I do, and someone else reads it and is like, that's nothing like me. I don't, I don't connect to this at all. And that's just the nature of it when you're writing disability rep or really any kind of marginalized experience. You're not going to be representative of the community as a whole. And that's okay. You're just representing a, you're adding another voice to the representation in the community. And so that's how I try and go into it thinking this is just another voice in the community of disability rep, just another OCD book in all the books that rep OCD, another book with autism in all the books that rep autism, because there are there's a lot out there. There's a lot out there. Everyone should go look up all the books because they're great.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. I I think for writers, one of the things to be really careful would be to make sure that especially if it is out of your lived experience, maybe talking to people who have sensitivity readers. Well, yeah, because it would it might be a little easy to fall into some sort of um stereotypes.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. That's when sensitivity readers become very important, especially when you're writing outside your experience. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Speaking of, like, where do you think like we are with disability rep and romance? Like, how much do you think still needs to be done from here? And and what do you think authors and readers need to know about disability rep?

SPEAKER_01

Um, I think we're we're we could be doing better. I'm seeing more and more as the years go on, which is great and wonderful. I think we could be doing a lot better. I think publishers could be advocating for more disability rep in books. I think we could definitely be uplifting the voices of BIPOC disability representation, because a lot of time all we see is white disability. So we need to include other people in that as well, not just the white authors, but the BIPOC authors too, who are writing amazing disability rep. And I think we definitely, I am thankfully seeing the cured by love mechanic being retired more, which is great. Uh because I have to say, with disability rep, I think two things that people still get wrong is the love will cure your disability. No, absolutely not, and inspiration. Like, oh, look, look at this beautiful inspirational disability story. You have no excuse now, you able-bodied person. Like those are two things that really need to go away forever. Um, but I still see them popping up sometimes, which is bleh.

SPEAKER_03

I was trying to think, because I've been reading for a little while, and I was trying to think of stories that I read a long time ago, in which there was somebody with a disability. And I remember the only I can think of two. They were both written by Sandra Brown, and one was a woman who was deaf. For in my mind, I she was blind, but it turns I looked it up, she was deaf. And the other was a uh a man in in a wheelchair. But yeah, those were the only two I could think of uh after reading for many, many years, maybe before you were born. Um so now we are seeing more, not just sort of physical disability, but also neurodivergence. Um, we're we're seeing so I mean that's nice because people, you know, as you said, they're on a different spectrum in terms of their lived experiences, how they cope with them, uh the skills they have, all that kind of stuff plays in there. And I think more readers really like to see real people. I mean, when I first started reading romance, the women were always five foot seven and beautiful, right?

SPEAKER_00

They're all like models, right?

SPEAKER_03

They were models. Uh the men to a certain extent are still six foot one and and hunky, but you know, um, and I remember the first time reading a Lori Foster book that had uh a woman who was overweight and being so excited because that was something I always struggled with, right? So why would that not be for everything else? Right? Have short, short women, short men, women who are too who are tall, right? Like what if you had a six foot one woman and a five foot seven man, right? Like, um, I mean, there's just and so I think the diversity only helps. The I mean, and romance is the one that seems to always be at the forefront of that, you know, and sometimes it might get it wrong a little bit, but it but they're pushing that, like let's have more people in here. So I I do give it credit for that, even though it does can sometimes mess it up a little bit.

SPEAKER_00

I have an attendant question on this, and this is something that I go back and forth on. Um what do you think about the issue of like depicting characters with disability who are like not always don't don't always feel like good people or always like really relatable people? I feel I see readers go back and forth on this. I see I see authors go back and forth on this. I go back and forth on this mentally. Like for instance, that there was a it was an author who wrote a her main character was deaf, and but it was also kind of a jerk. And like some people reading it were kind of bothered by this. It's like, okay, I really love the rep, but also this character is such a jerk. And at the same time, I was like, well, you know, like sometimes I mean it's okay for for a deaf person to be a jerk, they could be any number of things, but also I can understand why a deaf community or even other readers might be frustrated that like we have this rep, but also this character is a jerk. And I'm wondering what you thought about that.

SPEAKER_01

So my thoughts are, yeah, like everybody's a jerk. Everybody's a jerk sometimes. And especially like when you're disabled and the world is not built for you, there's so many frustrations. So sometimes we get very frustrated and the jerk just comes out. I think where the problem lies is the people who have any type of character that has a disability and they're either a jerk or they're the bad guy, and they're a jerk or they're a bad guy because of their disability. If the origin story of their evilness, of their badness is their disability, that's a problem. Also, if they are the only in this world of your book who has a disability and they're the jerk, that's the problem. Like make them human, make them well-rounded, give them dimension. Absolutely, they can be angry sometimes. You can have a villain that has a disability. Just don't make them the villain because of their disability. That's when it goes into problematic and insensitive territory.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I see, I feel like I see that a lot. Yeah, I mean, this character was kind of a jerk because of their disability, but it's also because they were frustrated with people around them. That felt very real to me, honestly.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But I can understand why people are frustrated with them.

SPEAKER_03

That character was a woman, right? Yeah, because there's a part of me that is sitting here saying men can be jerks all the time. I mean, we got a whole classification of romance novels where men are jerks, right? Like, yes. Um, and and so if it were a man being like that, they might get a bigger pass than a woman, yes, which is a whole other thing on top of it, right?

SPEAKER_00

I I write a character, it's my my one of my MMCs, he's bipolar, he has a uh he has addiction, he's addicted to substance abuse, and he's PTSD, and he's a jerk sometimes. And I feel like people give him a pass because he's a guy. I feel like if I had a woman doing this, she would not get away with it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. Layers and layers of society on top of all this, which is unfortunate. Yeah, yeah. But you know, we plug forward and hopefully we help people see the reality of it, you know. I mean, we were farther along than we were when I started reading romance, and all the women were five foot seven and blonde with long hair, right? So um, you have a new book coming out. It's a billionaire romance with an aerialist backstage night with the billionaire. How did this story come about? Because aerialist, I'm like, okay, I don't think I've read that ever.

SPEAKER_01

So there are a few. It's definitely like lower on the sports romance spectrum, but there definitely are a few aerialist romance writers out there. So I actually do aerials. Okay. It is my hobby outside of writing. I've been doing it uh, oh goodness, since 2018. So almost 10 years now. And I love it. And I've written a few aerialists before this book. Um, but this book, I just thought it would be so funny to pair a romantic, like down on her luck aerialist, because we all know the arts do not pay well, no matter what you're in. So romantic down on her luck aerialist with a rich, cynical billionaire. He thinks he's been cursed by love, he doesn't believe in love, she believes in nothing but love, she like falls in love at first sight, and I'm like, oh, pairing those two together would be so fun because I'm a huge fan of like opposites attract and and things like that. So I'm like, this would be fun, and really any excuse to like shove aerials in a book and and then I can use like my aerial videos as promo material. Like, yes, no, I'll just film aerial content, and that's the promo for my book. I love it, and encourage other people to try aerials because it's really fun, and I think everyone should try it. Um, so I just I love writing aerialists.

SPEAKER_00

Your stick figure Instagram one was perfect. You you you missed your calling.

SPEAKER_01

I know I should have been an artist. I'm so good at trying.

SPEAKER_00

I clicked on the carousel and I was like, I should have expected that.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Now, just to be clear, when we talk about aerialists, I'm sitting here thinking of pink when she does her shows.

SPEAKER_01

Is it like that or is it more like cirque de soleil? More like cirque sole. Pink is on like wires. That's not if you've seen Lindsay Sterling, she does aerials while doing her violin stuff. But yeah, it's like Cirque du Soleil, it's silk, sling, hoop, uh sometimes trapeze, straps, ropes, uh, all the fun stuff.

SPEAKER_00

My first experience with aerial is was actually going to a Midsummer Night's Dream production in the gardens at Hampton, Hampton Court that had all the fairies doing aerials in with a lot of like fabric and stuff. And they had like dressed up the fabric with like flowers and stuff. And it was really cool. I loved it. I wonder what Shakespeare would have thought of that.

SPEAKER_03

So cool.

SPEAKER_00

I think he would have thought it was badass.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, especially because there's women in it now, right?

SPEAKER_00

Well, yeah, yeah. I think he might he might have thought that was cool too. I don't know. Uh well, so Mariah here also, this is near and dear to my heart, runs online events on Instagram, like uh Author April and Author August, which as you know, Mariah, I love to be part of. Um I usually tell our authors to take part in these events as well and to like to practice posting more often and increasing their social media presence. And I was wondering if you could tell our listeners a little bit about Author April, what it is, and and like why you decided to host it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so I st oh man, when did I start these? I think it was like back in 2021, maybe 20, somewhere in the pandemic when that was all full force. And I was like, man, it is so hard to post every day, but they're like, you know, be consistent, post every day. And I was actually at like my kids' friend's birthday party sitting there, and I'm like, oh, what if I did a monthly calendar prompt and like just invited everybody to post and stuff? And so that's kind of like where it was born from. And so now author April, author August, because I love alliterations. Um it's just a twice-a-year I post the calendar prompts like a couple weeks before the month starts, so people can start prepping. Um, some of the prompts are the same, like Saturday is always check-in where you're doing, you know, like word count or status. We do main character Mondays, Tuesday teasers, and then there's different things about either the stories that you're writing or you as an author, you know, your habits and the things you prefer, the things you like, the things you don't. And it's just a prompt welcome for everybody. Anyone can do it, indie, trad, if you're a hobbyist, if you write fanfic, poetry, nonfiction fiction. Anyone who's a writer is totally welcome to participate. And you just take the prompt of the day. You can do one day, you could do all the days, doesn't matter, it's low pressure, and it's just a way that I can kind of like give back to the writing community and help them out, you know, twice a year with a month full of prompts so that they don't have to use their creative focus for that. Because I feel like social media pulls so much of our creativity out of us. It's like this way, at least there's two months a year where you don't have to think, you just have to answer. Yeah, I'll do the thinking for you. You just answer the question, boom, you've got comment for a month.

SPEAKER_00

And it's more than just a month, like it's really good practice for people. You know, like you get into the habit, right? You like you make templates for yourself. Like you can keep doing like main character Mondays and check-in Saturdays and teaser Tuesdays, you know, like and and it's also inspired other people to do things like Friday Spark. And I always post it to our writing group. I always send it to our authors, you know, when we've got a release coming out, like, do this, do author April, do author August, like develop your social media presence, get practice, get on to Canva, you know, like dust off your your Canva templates and and get yourself out there, you know, and like and build your presence. And I just I'm really grateful to you for for running this because it's also like helpful to me to see that there's all these other authors who are doing this and shove our new authors out into it and be like, get out there, you know, like post about your stuff. Yeah, do it. People want to know.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, exactly. Do you find any sort of post resonates more with readers than others?

SPEAKER_01

Um with readers, readers real they really love character art. Readers really love character art, and I think they really like learning about your characters like more than what's in the book. They really want to know like how you created this character because then it helps them connect to it and helps them connect to the story. So they really love anything that's gonna bring them more into the story and connect with these characters.

SPEAKER_03

Amen. Yeah. I wish I was better at it, but I get frustrated with it very easily for all the reasons everybody always says, right? But when we were getting ready to do this call, I did. I went over to your Instagram and I was just like, this is great. I can do this, but then I start looking at everything. I'm like, I don't know how I'd come up with that idea. Then I'd have to make the thing, you know, like I mean, all of a sudden I'm overwhelmed by it. So Tara takes care of me. It can be overwhelming, it's a lot, a lot, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So yeah, you have to try not to compare yourself to other people, it's a slow, slow game, you know, like and like Instagram's always changing, but there's a reason I won't leave it. Like, I feel like the writing community there is really strong, and I feel like the readers are still there. Like, I do not feel like the readers are not on Instagram, they just they're getting a lot of ads, they're getting a lot, a lot, it's a lot of noise, you know. So you have to find a way to do that. Well, that's just it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and the ad thing it's problematic, right? Because you know, we hear people all the time, oh, I don't even just go on there anymore because all I got is ads. You know, Facebook is the worst. You never see anybody you're following on there.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So I have lost faith in I've lost the faith in Facebook. It does feel like there's nobody there.

SPEAKER_03

And it's sort of unfortunate because in some ways, for at least for an old lady like me, it's easier to connect like through groups and stuff. It's nice to be able to have an easy exchange between your readers, but I don't really feel so much like on Instagram, you know, you have the comments, but it's just it, I don't know, it just feels different to me. Um anyway. Uh adaptations. Do you like to watch adaptations of books? Because there's a lot this year.

SPEAKER_01

Um is a lot. I prefer to watch the movie first and then read the book because the book is always better. So I watch the movie, I'm like, oh, that was great. And then I read the book, I'm like, oh my gosh, that was amazing. Yeah. Disappointed. Yeah. If you do it the other way around, like you're gonna be disappointed. Yeah. So I I prefer movie first, then book. Or if I've read the book, sometimes I'll like wait a bit for the movie to like forget the book, forget the book, forget the book, then go watch the movie.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's what and along with this, the adaptation you might be looking forward to. Um and whether you like them is is there a book you wish would have an adaptation? So both adaptation, you know, and maybe one you're looking forward to this year. There's lots of them, or maybe it's already come out.

SPEAKER_01

I would love any book by Talia Hibbert to be made. I know she like had some options. I don't know how that's going, but like any Talia Hibbert book or Evie Mitchell book to be optioned would be so amazing because I love both of their both of their books. And I don't know if it's from a book, but Under the Tuscan Sun? Is that from a book? I think that was a book. Because that I want to see that. It looks so cute. Yeah, that with what's her name. Or wait, is that what it's called? Maybe it's not called Under the Tuscan Sun. It's that new one with Oh, with Roger Yeah. It's Tuscan something.

SPEAKER_03

Tuscany Tuscany something. Yeah, I don't know if that was a book. Um, yeah. The guy enough Bridgerton to make it big in the world.

SPEAKER_01

And the first thing we're gonna see is Hallie Berry from The Little Mermaid. That's right. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I don't know if that was a book, was it? If it's not a book, it should be a book because it looks so cute. I want to see that one. I know it's out already, but I usually wait till things come to streaming because I need my captions. Theaters are hard for me.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Well, are you, Tara?

SPEAKER_00

Um, well, I mean, our Substack article about Evelyn, and I just remembered how like how tight and fantastic a romance it is. And I love my Jane Austen adaptations. I'm so glad that they always do them. But I really wish that BBC would do like a full like Fanny Bernie, Evelina, Cecilia, Camilla uh adaptation. I think that I mean these are really good old historic romances. And I mean, Cecilia's a little messy. They could probably drop some of the early stuff with like her, like the wards who are taking care of her money and like the guy who like wants to off himself, all that could probably be removed. But there's a really good romance at the center of it with all this stuff about like gender dynamics and like the pride of families. I think that it would make a really good adaptation. And Evelyn is just like, you can't read it without thinking, like, oh my goodness, like you can see Jane Austen was highly influenced by this, and it would make a really good, it make a really good movie. So BBC, if you're listening, which I know you're not, but that would make a very good adaptation.

SPEAKER_03

We should message them or something. Yeah, yeah. I am looking forward to the other Bennett sister. I've been watching clips on the YouTube, and I have been reading the book. Um, and I have sometimes seen a movie and gone back and read the book, but a lot of I am one of those people that sometimes, oh, I'm gonna read it first. And I I feel like I'm pretty good at recognizing adaptations aren't gonna be the same. I'm sometimes surprised at what they changed, like it makes no sense to me why they might change something, you know. Uh the last Bridgerton season, there were some things they changed, and I was glad for it because there were some things in the book I didn't like very much. But you know, I I I enjoy that. I am looking forward to the Pride and Prejudice, even though I'm a little worried about it because Netflix messed up persuasion so horrifically badly.

SPEAKER_00

Some bad adaptations lately. But I heights.

SPEAKER_03

When I look at the actors who are in it, I'm like hopeful that you know uh it'll be good. In terms of um what I oh, and I did I saw Beach Read is from Emily Henry. Um I was surprised that isn't the first adaptation since that was the the breakout book. Um, but anyways, and and Patrick Schwarzenegger is going to be playing uh the lead character. He was so good in um White Lotus this last season.

SPEAKER_01

Did you watch I I don't watch White Lotus? I watched like the first episode. I was like, oh that's not for me. It was a perfect, he was a perfect entitled douchebag.

SPEAKER_03

But then, but then something happens. You have to watch it, something happens, and he and he is completely changed. Like, and I don't want to go into a you know, because it's spoiler, and that's part of the fun of the show. Um, but I was like, okay, he he's he's not just a perfect dish bag. Not that I have no reason to think so, but you just think nepotism and all that kind of stuff. Um, but no, he did, he did, he did good, and he, yeah, that was crazy. So it'll be interesting to see. Be I don't know if you read Beach Reed, but that's two authors, and they end up in Michigan on a lake, and they both are having writer's block, and they decide to they decide they're gonna one's a romance writer, and I can't remember what he is. I don't know if he's like a damn brown type or I can't or horror, I can't remember what he is, but they decide they're gonna switch and write he they're gonna write his books, but they're going to like as a as a ch as a switch, they're gonna try and write something different just to get them out, anyways. It's sort of cute. There was a part in it that I would hope they change because I didn't like it, you know. I just felt it was weak. Um, so we'll see. But in terms of adaptations that I um really uh wish they would do would be the JD Robin Death books. I love those books. Uh the first couple are really good. I think they would be so fun because they're set slightly in the well, now it's only slightly in the future. At the time she wrote them, it was 60 years in the future, right? But uh Eve is a kick-ass cop. Uh Rourke, a uh Irish billionaire who doesn't have a last name. Like he's you know, it's procedural, like uh cop procedural. But I yeah, I would love to see that. And I don't know if they were ever optioned, but I remember a long time ago on the internet when the internet was first growing, there were people who were really wanting that to happen. And I remember them picking Marishka Hardate as as wanting her to play Eve. Oh man, of course, she's too old now, right?

SPEAKER_00

She never, no, she'll never be too old. Mariska until the end. So she's still 29 in my heart.

SPEAKER_03

But I mean, that's the type of character it is, like she's just tough. And anyways, um, that's I would love to see that. And I would also like I think it would be fun to see the heist books from Janet Ivanovich and Lee Goldberg. I just think those would be fun to watch.

SPEAKER_00

Um unfortunately romantic is sort of on the on the wane right now that it's a it's like not as popular as it used to be, you know. Yeah. It was like the first time I had really even understood what romantic suspense was when we were in the lead up to Pause and Peril. I was like, What's romantic suspense? And I realized I had read it before, but I was a kid in the 90s, so I just didn't I didn't know that that was what my mom was listening to on audiobook. You know, I was like, Oh, I don't know what this is, you know.

SPEAKER_03

But I wish it was big in the 90s, right? Because you had Sandra Brown, you know, J uh Nora Roberts moved into it. We had Linda Howard, we had, you know, like all of them, yeah. It was really, yeah. And now I think we see, you know, the adaptations are the books that are big, so they tend to be rom-commi books, right? Those are the same books that did well during COVID and now have now they have trad print deals, right? So um, and I guess the unfortunate thing about, and this kind of goes back to arcs too, like who gets arcs and what arcs they get is is the bigger you are the more attention you're going to get, and the more likely you're gonna get, you know, a TV show or a a movie or I mean a lot, I don't know if a lot of people know, but not every book gets an odd, not every publisher will do an audiobook.

SPEAKER_00

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So they'll so they'll buy your audio rights, but whether or not they make an audiobook, you know, not guaranteed. And so, you know, and people are like, how come you don't have an audiobook or whatever? Well, I don't have the money or I don't have the rights, and my publisher won't do it, right? Yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So I predict that we're probably gonna see a lot of romanticy adaptations. Like I think that that's probably going to come down the pike.

SPEAKER_03

I'm what do you think the first one will be?

SPEAKER_00

Will it be AkuTar or will it be Fourth Way? I I'm it's one of those. I don't know which one. Yeah. I truly don't. I I think that the spicier of the two is more likely though.

SPEAKER_03

I wonder if there's wagers on it, right?

SPEAKER_00

I need to see if there are options out there. That'll tell me. What do you think, Mariah?

SPEAKER_01

Um I actually I don't know about the romantic because I know that with romantic, especially if you have like dragons and high fe and all this kind of stuff, that is a lot of money for CGI. Yeah. And I know studios are kind of pulling back on that because shows and things like that are super expensive. So unless they can guarantee a huge payout, I think some of the like really high fantasy romanticies might be harder sells just because the studios don't want to. They're like, we don't want to spend the money on that. So I mean, we'll see though.

SPEAKER_00

So we usually try to end off with our what we're reading right now and what we recommend. So let's start with our guests.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Well, I just got the uh most recent Lore Olympus collections. I think it's volume nine. So I'm in the middle of Lore Olympus volume nine. I love Lore Olympus so much. Yeah, they're on like nine already. Yeah. And I know I think like someone said, oh, the webtoon is already like all the web. I'm like, no, I don't, I want to read it in the book. I don't I'll wait. I'm fine. I'll wait. I'll be patient. Anticipation. Yes. So I I love Lore Olympics. Uh anyone who has not read Lore Olympus, I would highly recommend reading it. It's lots of fun.

SPEAKER_00

I read that on webtoons back in the day. Use webtoons, being of the impatient sort myself.

SPEAKER_01

I'm behind, no spoilers.

SPEAKER_00

I have to get the volumes. I should get the first one for my niece when she was in a she was in a big Hades and Persephone phase, so I had to get it for her, which is great. I was like, things I can get for you that are not, you know, like young adult things. It's fun to have an adult niece. Uh Jenna, what are you reading? What do you recommend?

SPEAKER_03

Well, I am reading the other Bennett sister.

SPEAKER_00

Do you recommend it though?

SPEAKER_03

I you know, I'm enjoying it. I, you know, it's it's not as difficult to read if you were to go read Austin, but you definitely see that way of talking and writing in there. It's a little bit more accessible in it. And I'm trying to decide it. What I have to remind myself when I read it is this is mostly Mary. You know, it does sort of have the high-level um point of view, like it's Mary's story, but every now and then, you know, we're hearing Elizabeth thought this or whatever. I'm like, how do you know that? But it's Mary's story, and so I'm constantly reminding myself of this is how Mary saw them, right? So how we might and how we believe we know Lizzie, how we believe we know Mrs. Bennett, how we believe we know the rest of them, Kitty and Lydia are are about the same.

SPEAKER_00

Silly and annoying.

SPEAKER_03

Um, but Mrs. Bennett sometimes feels crueler to me than I remember, but also Mary has it more difficult because she is not like her sisters in terms of having either beauty or charm or you know, all that kind of stuff. So it's an interesting take on it. And it's also interesting because I am just now at the part where they're at they're at the party where Darcy asks Elizabeth to dance. Um, and Mary's trying to impress Mr. Collins because she's decided, oh, he's bookish, I'm bookish. Um, you know, I could save the family type of thing. Um, and she's just played the piano. You all know the scene, right? You know, and embarrass the family, her father. Yeah. And so to read it from her, to read her going into it like this is gonna be great, you know, and I'm being brave, and then you know, have it just not go at all. That was tough. So overall, I'm enjoying it. I I am eager to get to the part when we get past Pride and Prejudice, and she's you know, we have I'm must be a third through and we have not met the love interests. There's two of them. Oh wow, haven't met one of them yet, so not romance technically, but still fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Wow. We're a third of the way through without the love interest? Not even a hint. Good lord.

SPEAKER_03

No, because we're still in Pride and Prejudice, and I don't she my understanding is she's gonna go to London like with the aunt the gardeners, and I think that's where she meets, or maybe she becomes a governor. I'm not quite sure because I haven't read it yet, but I have she goes somewhere, and that's where she leaves them.

SPEAKER_00

I I would have had her meet him at a ball at least early on and be like corresponding in the background so that it's still we have a sense of him, but not like that. Even if we're doing Pride and Prejudice, that's very weird. Yeah, well, it's not in it's not in Pride and Prejudice, but we wouldn't necessarily see it, right? Because Mary's kind of doing her own thing in the corner.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. So anyway, she has danced with somebody, Mrs. Bennett. That I think that's the most it it sometimes comes off cruel. I'll be interested to see how it comes off in the show. Uh, you know, the whole thing about the glasses. Uh she's pretty harsh on the glasses, but Mary's determined. I'm gonna read.

SPEAKER_00

She should.

SPEAKER_03

Oh Mary.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, keep her glasses on, yeah, headaches.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. But it's you know, her her experience in that family is difficult because she's plain, she's awkward, you know, she's ignored for the most part. You know, she's treated like a know it all. She's she tries to, she will try to engage, but what she says is like comes off either that or um judgy or yeah, she's just awkward. It made me we're speaking about neurodivergence earlier. It made me wonder maybe that's oh yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Jane Austen is full of neurodivergent characters, Mr. Darcy. That man is autistic, so autistic.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, you could just see how uncomfortable he is, and he even says it. I do not have the skill to converse with people I do not know. He says it in the book, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So you just don't have a language to describe that, like it's not just that he lacks a skill, he cannot, you know, he's extremely uncomfortable in this situation, it's not gonna get better. It's not just because he hasn't realized how amazing balls are, he's never going to like them.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, which is one of the reasons sometimes I don't like the alternative books for Pride and Prejudice, is because he seems different. He chuckles in one of them. I'm like, Darcy would never chuckle.

SPEAKER_00

You and chuckling, not a million years. No, Jenna hates chuckling, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So yeah. Anyway, that's me. What about you, Tara?

SPEAKER_00

Um, well, I wrote our Evelyn article this week. So I've been rereading my Jane Austen at home by Lucy Worsley. And uh it's a so it's kind of a relaxed biography. Um, it really relaxed in the sense that like it's very readable, you know. Um, it's just very enjoyable to read. But um thing about Lucy is that she just moves so like easily like a facility between all these different points of view with the correspondence. You know, I have my Jane Austen correspondence as well, and I'll I'll bring it out when she points out a letter or something like that that I need to go look at. Um yeah, she she sort of is randomly will just be like, oh yeah. And they were at the time they were reading, um, they were reading their favorite, you know, Mariah Edgeworth, or they were reading Evelina, and this is what they thought about Evelina, you know, showing that she really understood these letters and has like really brought them into herself. And so that's been wonderful to read. And I'm also reading, continuing to read Avola Clerk's Shadow of Betrayal, which is being serialized on Substack. It's like a dark romance. That's been really fun.

SPEAKER_03

Mariah, I want to thank you so much. I really have enjoyed uh talking with you today and learning about your your books and watching your disability rep.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you so much for having me. It was wonderful being here. It was so nice talking to y'all. Yeah, and I do love your glasses.

SPEAKER_03

I guess they're so cute. You have the cutest glasses. I want to get up here. Thank you. And if go check her Instagram so you can see these these great glasses, they're awesome.

SPEAKER_01

I have way too many heart-shaped glasses. I have a problem.

SPEAKER_00

My friend Sabrina and I have both had LASIK, and she fears the idea of getting up close glasses, you know, like having to, you know, reading glasses and stuff. And I actually showed her your glasses and was like, look, we'll go together. We'll go get some cute reading glasses, just like these. We're gonna look amazing. And she saw yours and was like, Oh yeah, oh yes, that's that's what I need. So, like, you've inspired us. Thank you. Whoa. You'll come on again when you have another release. We've loved talking to you. And there's so much to talk about with disability rep. I would I would love that. So we really appreciate it. We are Tender and Tempting Tales. This is illicit liaisons. You can find us on Instagram, this Tender Tempting Tales at Instagram. Um, you can also find us on Substack. We have weekly articles coming out. Uh, we talk about romancing the past, we talk about romance reading, we have romance challenges. Um, and you can find us there at Tender and Tempting Tales on SubSec. And of course, we have Calls Open right now. Uh, we've got Fantastical Foes open until the end of the month. That is romanticy, enemies to Lovers, Romanticy, stories up to 7,000 words. That's for our second zine. And we have Starlit and Spellbound, which is opening next month. That is an anthology for stories that are under 10,000 words. And that's any subgenre of romance. Um, please make sure you look at our guidelines and we'd love to see submissions from new and existing and experienced romance authors, whatever you guys are thinking. Um, but please do reach out if you have any questions. Jenna?

SPEAKER_03

Okay, Mariah, thank you so much for being with us. Thank you, everybody who's listening for tuning in and joining us. Please be sure to stop by wherever we are and comment because we'd love to hear from you and whatever your hot takes are, because we like to talk the drama, of course. And until next time, peace, love, and happily ever after.