Illicit Liaisons
Illicit Liaisons
Illicit Liaisons: Author and SaSS event planner Amy Marie
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This week, we chat with author and book event planner Amy Marie about whether romance books need more yearning, Amy's success with SaSS while other book signing events seem to be imploding, the internet's policing of dark romance, and more.
About Amy Marie
Amy Marie was born and raised in the northwest suburbs of Chicago (Go Cubs Go!) until she married the red-headed love of her life in 2005 and made the move to Virginia Beach, Virginia, where she currently resides with her two teenagers and a mini-Australian Shepard, who chases after the four cats!
In 2014, she published her first book in the Unexpected Series and hasn’t looked back since. As a contemporary romance and romantic suspense author, she loves to tell everyone about her books and attend as many signing events as she can.
Not only did her dream of becoming an author come to life, but so did her love of event planning when she started the Sexy and SaSSy Signing (also known as SaSS). SaSS is an annual romance author book signing held in July, with some mini events held in St. Louis and Savannah. Every year she brings over 500 people together to celebrate their love of books and welcome them into the SaSSy Family!
You can find her on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and Threads, all under either Author Amy Marie or The Sexy and SaSSy Signing. BTW… SaSS27 tickets are on sale now!
Amy Marie's Books https://amzn.to/4xaztm0
Amy Marie Facebook https://www.facebook.com/amy.marie.679521/
Amy Marie Instagram https://www.instagram.com/author_amy_marie/
Amy Marie TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@authoramymarie
Amy Marie Threads https://www.threads.com/@author_amy_marie
SaSS27 Richmond, VA Tickets https://www.eventbrite.com/e/sass27-unforgettable-nights-richmond-signing-event-tickets-1993293205636
SaSS Attendees Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/sassysigning
MENTIONED ON THE SHOW
Adriana Locke https://amzn.to/4gWHB3N
Melanie Harlow https://amzn.to/4gLsnOI
Collide by Gail McHugh https://amzn.to/4cBlK0h
Encore in Death by J.D. Robb https://amzn.to/4r0SgyY
Urna Semper on Substack https://urnasemper.substack.com/
Come Away with Me by Kristin Proby https://amzn.to/3TemlhY
Come Away with Me on Passionflix https://watch.passionflix.com/watch/16e9a261-3fc9-4f0f-bb46-338d78032db2
TENDER & TEMPTING TALES
Tender and Tempting Tales Substack: Subscribe and get a FREE story! https://tenderandtemptingtales.substack.com/
Tender and Tempting Tales on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tendertemptingtales/
Tender and Tempting Tales ARC Team: https://booksprout.co/reviewer/team/56782/tender-and-tempting-tales
Calls for Submissions: https://tenderandtemptingtales.substack.com/p/write-for-tender-and-tempting-tales
ILLICIT LIAISONS PRODUCED & HOSTED BY
Tara Leederman Substack: https://taleederman.substack.com/
Jenna Harte: https://jennaharte.com/
Outline and Show Notes: T.A. Leederman
Editing: Jenna Harte
Hello, romance readers. Welcome to Illicit Liaisons with Tender and Tempting Tales, where each week we discuss the good, the bad, and the naughty of romance fiction. I'm Jenna Hart, the author of the Southern King Contemporary Romance series and the Sexy Valentine Mysteries, as well as managing editor of Tender and Tempting Tales, a steamy romance anthology for readers who like quickies.
SPEAKER_02Hi, I'm Sarah Lederman, social media manager here at Tender and Tempting Tales, and Laura Maven, a main fiction writer for Starship Valkyrie, a science fiction game and story universe. I write science fiction stories, including sci-fi romance and romance urban romanticity, and you can often find me in our anthologies and on Substack.
SPEAKER_01And we are so excited today to have as our guest host Amy Marie, an organizer from SAS. Amy Marie was born and raised in Northwest suburbs of Chicago, and she's got Go Cubs Go. So let's throw that in there for her. Until she married the redheaded love of her life. Gotta love redheads in 2005 and made the move to Virginia Beach, Virginia, where she currently resides with her two teenagers and a mini Australian shepherd who chases after four cats. In 2014, she published her first book in the Unexpected series and hasn't looked back since. As a contemporary romance and romantic suspense author, she loves to tell everyone about her books and attend as many signing events as she can. Not only did her dream of becoming an author come to life, but so did her love of event planning when she started the sexy and sassy signing, also known as Sass. Sass is an annual author book signing event held in July. And she didn't put this in here, but it's been like a decade that she's done. 10 years, I think, this year, with many events held in St. Louis and Savannah. Every year she brings over 500 people together to celebrate their love of books and welcome them into the sassy family. You can find Amy Marie on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and threads, all under either author Amy Marie or the Sexy and Sassy signing. And of course, we'll have links to this in our show notes so that you can click and go and check her out. And I just want to throw out there that tickets for SAS 2027 are now on sale. So we'll have links to that too. So, Amy, thank you so much for agreeing to do this with us. We're very excited to have you here today. I'm excited. Well, we always include our guests as part of the show, and we usually start the show talking about bookish drama or angst and news or whatever happens to be going on. And I have been seeing a lot more lately on Booktube or on Bookstagram or BookTalk more from readers that say they're yearning for they're yearning for yearning. They want more yearning in their romance books or angst. And Jessica over at Peace Love Books has never made it a secret. The angstier the better. I also caught a piece by Alyssa Morris over on Romancing the Stone Substack. And back in January, she said readers are tired and looking for something that feels new, but they're also going back and reading the romances of the late 90s and 2000s, which is really what I that's what I cut my teeth on. Like that's what I started reading when I was reading romance. Um, and so they're reading a lot of like historical romance or 2000s paranormals. That said, Novessa Allen, who we know from Lights Out, responded on a TikTok that all this yearning is all well and good, but she's going to keep writing for the quote unquote horny bitches out there. Good for her. Because you know.
SPEAKER_02Someone has to.
SPEAKER_01So I guess the question is have romances lost their yearning? And if so, is it because it's being replaced by spice? Or I don't know. What do you guys think?
SPEAKER_00Um, I I don't know. I don't think it is. Um, I maybe it's the books that I read, but I feel like even sometimes, like if there's like a sex scene, I might like skip over it because I'm looking for that angsty, like like want and need. And I haven't really come across any books where I've had to do that multiple times. So I don't know. Maybe I'm reading the wrong books because the ones that have all the spice sound kind of nice.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I think that I, you know, I see a lot of books that are cozy, and I think cozy tends to have less like drama and angst in it. And I think that there's an is an instinct towards coziness because it's popular right now. Uh, I see a lot of spicy, cozy books, you know, and they they just sort of tend to have lower stakes and less yearning, yeah, and less friction, I think. Uh, and that's fine. You know, like I think that people that there's like a set of readers who like that like level of like uh lower stakes, less stress when they're reading, lower anxiety, maybe, you know, like the the stakes are like, will we save the apple orchard? Yes, no, you know, and we will, you know, in romance that we're gonna save the apple orchard, it's gonna be fine, you know. And it's it's it's like you don't have to really worry about conflict and that, you know. I think that people are just reading the wrong books. I mean, I maybe romantic suspense needs to make an even stronger comeback so that you know people can be running from you know more mobsters, and then that will have more drama and angst in it. Or it may be the case that maybe more with more romanticity, the drama and angst is coming from outside of the relationship, not from inside the relationship. And people want to see more conflict inside relationships and not like there's a dragon flaw like coming after us, and that's the conflict. Yeah, like in a romanticy, or there's a political conflict, and that's the conflict, and it's not within the relationship. Uh, but I do think that there's romance out there for those folks. I think that it's just maybe not in the subgenre that they're reading, or not in the category that they're reading, but so much romance, you know, there's just there is so much to read out there. I think that you could probably find that thing. It just might not be recommended to you on TikTok.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. I I I feel like there's so much out there that if you want only spice, you'll find it. Or if you want no spice, you'll find it. Or if you want like, you know, the angsty, you'll find it. You know, something lighter versus darker.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I think of Lauren Blakely, who write she writes spice. But her books, uh cozy isn't necessarily the word I would use, but they're a nice read. They're, you know, these are people that you feel like you would know in your neighborhood, even though some of them might be filthy rich, right? And you're rooting for them. It's usually a friends to lovers type of thing. So, you know, it it doesn't have the same angst as enemies to lovers or something like that. But the the the key, the word that was sort of was hanging me up was your was yearning. They're yearning for yearning. And then there was the idea that they're going back and reading older books. Well, I've read a lot of those, and so I was trying to think, what did those books have that our books now don't have? And the only thing I can think of is that they draw out before a couple starts to merge together, and maybe that's the yearning element. I want, I want, I want, I want. And they don't get a taste until page 120.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_01Whereas I think in a lot of our books, a lot of the books now, because Spice has been popular, things start happening earlier, you know. They, you know, they hook up, and then, you know, later, um, turns out it's her boss or whatever, her brother friend, or whatever. And then, and so then they're divided at that point. Um, so so I yeah, I don't know. I was really sort of stuck on what because it seems to me you can have yearning and spice. And so I guess the question is, is it do they mean spice? Is there so much in it so fast? It happens so fast. And is the yearning element something that it was just drawn out for a long time? I don't know. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I'll you know, when you were talking, I was like, there are books that I read, and when the couple finally gets together, I'm I feel like I disconnect a little bit because I'm like, oh, they're together now. So I think I do like the yearning, like the waiting for that moment where they finally come together. And then after that, you're like, okay, well, I know something bad's gonna happen, and then everything's gonna be fine. Yeah. But I'm like, I I miss the before. Like, when when are they gonna get together? When are they gonna like know? Um, I like Adrian a lot. I think that's how you say her name. She has like yearning and spice and all of that. Like, I I eat up her books like crazy. Um, they're like small town, but like I think she just like she takes small town and she does the yearning and the spice. I think that's why I just love love her books. Her and Melanie Harlow. I feel like I love them. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Writers in romance also write to some internal rules about, you know, like when things need to happen and how quickly they need to happen. You know, like I've sort of been inculcated in a romance with today's rules, which are I I do think that readers expect the couple to get together in some way a little earlier than maybe was acceptable in the 90s or 2000s. Whether that's getting them on screen having a spicy bit in a in like, you know, sort of like like the first episode of Grey's Anatomy, right? Like Meredith and Derek have like a one-night stand basically. So like that happens like all runs. And then like the rest of it is all these two get together, right? Spoiler for a show that started in 2004.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Um yeah, but like I think that the rules now are like you need to kind of get them together in some way. I think of like Lynn's story from Fireworks and Flirtation, right? Where like the the it starts with the two cat the two characters getting together in a in a kind of like a like a spicy interlude that's supposed to be just like uh I don't know, like two strangers. Uh and then she spends like a large portion of the rest of the story yearning, right? But they've already been together. But the question is, will they get together romantically? Not will they get together sexually? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yearning does feel like an emotional element, right? So I mean, it seems to me like you can get together with somebody, but the emotional level isn't there. I mean, you could still yearn, you could yearn more afterwards, right? Like, yeah, I really want this, yeah. It's an it's an interesting thing, but I also agree that there are so many books out there that people would need to be willing to go take a deeper dive, uh, you know, onto page eight of the Amazon listing, right? To find to find the author to you know, to find authors that have yet, you know, don't have the following yet or don't have you know being willing to take that. Because that, you know, as an author, we all understand this. It's so hard to be seen and heard because there's so much out there. And so if readers are not finding something, you know, maybe they need to just kind of go out and like, okay, I'm gonna try the never heard of this person, but I'm gonna try it. You know, they only have five reviews, but I'm gonna those five reviews say there's a lot of yearning, so I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna try.
SPEAKER_02I wish like bookish influencers would be more niche. I know it sounds funny, but like I wish that there was a yearning influencer out there on Instagram that he was just you know out there curating a crazy book of like a crazy like list of books about yearning, right? For everybody. You know, I see a lot of the big influencers, they'll read the same things as everybody else. You know, it's it's all apple cider, orchard, whatever, they're all reading the same thing. And like that's great for like their numbers and stuff like that, and it creates a sort of like conversation in romance world, but on the on the other side of it, it's difficult to find your niche, your thing, if you don't have an influencer who's into that thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it makes me think of the Duke in Bridgerton when I burn for you. That's what they want, right? That's what they want. Of course, the minute he said that, then they got into bed together. So there we go.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but Bridgerton is a is a is a contemporary. I mean it's not contemporary, contemporary, but it is something that's going, it's going on right now, right? Has yearning, yearning is still happening, yeah, still exists.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Or I think of you know, in the second season, Kate and Anthony, and they were so good at that, you know, they had that you could see the tension on the screen, and yet, you know, he was supposed to marry her sister, so maybe that was yearning. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, or you know, it's easy to see if Melby take three seasons to get together. That's some she yearns for him, she pines, he gets together with other ladies. There's some yearning there.
SPEAKER_01Three seasons, but you don't you don't feel it, you don't feel it like you do with Anthony.
unknownI feel bad for her.
SPEAKER_00Is it bad? I have never seen Bridgerton. Like it's I know it's not bad.
SPEAKER_02But it is fun, it is fun. It's very fun, it's very, very fun. I mean, it's especially if you like historical romance, it's like one of the few historical romances I've seen that's like I don't know, it's like it's sex, drugs, and rock and roll. It doesn't care about any historical accuracy whatsoever. It does whatever it wants, and I enjoy that. I enjoy that it's just sort of like whatever, law.
SPEAKER_01And that's what made it fun, right? It's not like watching Pride and Prejudice, right? Which maintains all the the constraints of the time. Bridgerton just has, you know, there's yearning, there's uh yeah, it and it was one of those things when you watch it, it's like I've never really seen this before. And that sort of elevated it to where everybody was like talking about it. Like, like this isn't this is not your grandma's Regency romance mini-series, right? Yeah. And yeah, and there's, you know, I don't know what episode it is, three or four. I s they spend more time naked than not, it seems to me, in that episode.
SPEAKER_02So it's a good time. All right, Amy. Shall we move on? You published the unexpected series and the karma series, and I was wondering if you could tell our listeners a little bit about your books and your upcoming plans for your unexpected series.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay. So the unexpected series I posted in or posted, dear lord. I got a social media brain right now. Um I published it in 2014, and it is contemporary romance, and it's it's real life. Like, I feel like it's real life situations. Um I was reading a lot of like billionaires pick up the 21-year-old virgin and like all this other stuff, and I was like, I want to read like a real relationship. Like, I want readers to know that like everyday guys are still like you know, hot and worth it, and they don't have to have all this money. And a lot of it's like real life situations. So, like the first one, unexpected, it's like a surprise pregnancy. Like, you know, she gets dumped, she goes out, has a one-night stand, can't find the guy. Like, it's just, you know, like stuff like that happens. And so I just really wanted to write real life people that I felt like they could be my friends, they could be people you know. You know, you could potentially meet a guy in the Starbucks when you're pretending to text and your flash goes off because you're taking a picture, like just that kind of stuff, you know. Um I love though. Yeah, it's just like he's like, Did you take a picture of me? No, okay. Um, so that's the unexpected series. It's you know, started with Erin and it goes through like to her best friend, and then her best friend's coworker and her sister and all of that, and it becomes like a family. And then I just really wanted to do something just completely different. And I went and wrote Seven and Case in, which is the karma series, and that one's like about revenge, like it's romantic suspense. There's like stuff that happens, and you know, she's she's going after these guys that tortured her in high school and getting revenge on them one by one, and then starts to fall for one.
SPEAKER_02I love stories, I love stories like that. I was like, that's actually really exciting to me. I have a key drama to recommend to you after this, by the way.
SPEAKER_00Okay, I'll take it. But yeah, so I was like, in in my mind, I'm like, this wouldn't happen in real life, but there's real life situations. Like he is a firefighter, and so it's like I don't know, I I really enjoyed the romantic suspense. Um, and Maria Vickers was over yesterday and we were talking about future books because we have to co kind of co-seen, co-write one together. And I was kind of going through it with her, and I was like, oh gosh, I miss like her, like the woman just being like in charge and like territorial and like just you know, all of that. Um, but as far as like future for the unexpected series, I'm I'm re-editing and re-covering them and making them hardbacks. And I've been toying with the idea of adding a couple more books because there's some that I'm like, you really need your book. So I don't know. I don't know what I'm gonna do with them. It's hard when like I'm sure you all understand, like, you're you're like, I really want to write this book for you know, Wendy, but like this person really wants me over here, and I just can't focus on that. So I don't know. I just they're just too completely different. So it's nice that signings are like, what do you have? And I'm like, well, there's nice and sweet and fluffy, and then there's like salty, like mean revenge, and you know, spice and and then yearning.
SPEAKER_02That's what I did over at WorldCon. I had two sides of the table, and I said, I have sex and violence. And this one's sex and violence. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03I love both.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, ups in peril, Jenna. I was just like, this one's sex and violence and spider.
SPEAKER_01And cute dogs, right?
SPEAKER_02Cute dogs, yeah, one very cute dog.
SPEAKER_01I love dogs, so anyway, okay, over the last few years, because Tara and I watch a lot of YouTube drama and things falling apart and going badly. Um, and so in the last few years, a lot of events have completely imploded, and some of them had been successful in the past, and then, you know, in one year everything came apart and they ended up canceling future ones. Like in that case, you know, it just felt like they got too big too fast, I guess. Others, you know, that it feels like there's organizers who are in over their heads, maybe, and you know, aren't able to deliver. Uh, there are some cases where we've heard attendees acting inappropriately to models and authors. We've heard AI become an issue for some events, and and authors are dropping out. Uh, and yet, Amy, year after year, here comes SAS with you know a hundred authors and 400 readers, or how many ever, right? Like, like it's big. It always comes right, and my first SAS was right after COVID, which is when people were still uneasy, still people there. I thought I think you had said to me, Well, there's not as many people, and I'm looking around like looks like a lot of people to me, you know. Um you have a lot of authors always show up, you have readers who always show up, and yet there's still a part of it that feels small and intimate. And I I wanted to share this because I was at my table this year, me and my sister has my PA. Um, and this is what's gonna be bad. This this is where I'm gonna come off sounding bad. The normal photographer that you have came over to the table and he says, Oh, I'm so glad to see you back. I remember your first year here, and I'm just like, dude, like, how do you like I was so embarrassed because I, you know, I saw photographer, I recognized him, but like he remember me? How I mean, I was just so shocked. Like, how did he do that? I still like it. Um this huge event that feels small and intimate. People remember each other. You talk about a family, everybody who's there that talks talks about a family. So, my question to you is do you know or understand what you do or don't do that these other events are somehow not pulling off?
SPEAKER_00So I I mention Maria a lot right now because she is my help. And so I asked her this. I said, I have I have no idea. Like, I don't even know what to say. And she just started listing these things off, and I was like, I didn't I don't even think of that. So the first thing that we did, because I used to have a co-planner named Lisa, is she was a reader and I was an author. She told me, This is what I hate about signings, this is what I love about signings. And as an author, this is what I hate about signings, this is what I love about signings. And so we went from there and like have grown, but it's a family. Like I I feel like that isn't really like people are like, okay, you know, sassy family, you know, it's just it, it's it is, it's family. I was talking with a couple of authors the past couple days. I just randomly messaged them, like, hey, how's it going with this medically? How's it, you know? Like, I feel like sometimes hosts are doing it. Um, I would never say for the money, because cause it's not, unless they're like charging astronomical fees. Um, but it's there goes my dog. It's it's it's a family. You get to know everybody. And what I wanted was, you know, to be the planner that if I'm walking around and you you were like, oh my gosh, I have the worst headache, that you know I will go get you the coffee or I'll get you the water you need or the sweet tea or you know, whatever it is. Um, you know, we we just I don't know. Like I just feel like It's my the way that I am. If authors message me, I'm so sorry to bother you, you're not bothering me. Like that's what I'm here for. I answer, you know, I answer everyone, everyone's questions. I I never say, you know, you know, go look here. Because you all could have possibly dozens of signings every year. I don't expect you to remember everything. And I have this one. And so I guess what I try to do is just, I'm very accommodating. I want to know everybody. I'm very loyal to the authors that come. Like if you message me and you're like, I can't come. And then 10 days later, oh, I can come now. All right, you're getting the next table. Like, that's just it's it's a loyalty thing for me. I treat every single author the exact same. Whether you have five followers or 5,500 followers, like it doesn't, it doesn't matter to me. Everyone's treated the same. Everyone, you know, and and I do that with the readers too. They're not just there to like make me look good. I guess. Like, like, oh, look at all these readers I brought to you. Um, they're people, they want to have fun, they want to know that the money that they're spending, their time, their travel, all of that is at a signing where people actually care about them and it and they're not just people in the door. Yes, I like to get people in the door, but you know, if someone like if someone messaged me, I'm sorry, I can't go next year, I just can't afford the ticket. Send them a ticket. Like, that's just I don't know. That's just how I feel. Um as far as like surviving the past 10 years, it is 100% keeping drama off Facebook and Instagram. There is a lot of drama that goes on behind the scenes all the time. I don't I don't post it. Now there are some things that really piss me off, and then I will go and post it. We had the thing with the author a couple months ago for St. Louis, and then there's an event host that I've known for years. She's just been like taking people's money, and besides that, I I keep the drama off Facebook. There's there's no way people really know the stuff that goes behind the scenes, like if it's bad. Because I just I don't I don't do it. I'm not there to like trend on threads. Like, I just wanna I just want to have fun and see my family and oh AI. Oh my gosh. Um that will get you canceled in a heartbeat. Um I I don't even know what to say about it. I don't use it. I ask that if you are promoting SAS or in the group or anything, you don't use AI. Um, I haven't had someone come to me and say, hey, this person's using, I haven't had that. Um I just I take everything one issue at a time. So as far as AI, I don't I don't know. I that's one of those things where you as an event host you can say the right thing for like five minutes and then the wrong thing for half a second, and it's just everything gets taken the wrong way. And so it's just it's difficult. It's difficult to comment on that kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's like politics or religion, or you know, it's become that sort of yeah. Uh I from the outside from an author looking in, I I will mention some things that I've noticed. I last year my stepfather passed a year and a half ago or so. So the last year helping mom through that, um, there was a lot of things I wasn't paying attention to that were going on for SAS 26. And I had, you know, when I finally came up for air, it was like, oh, I need to do this and I need to do that and need to do that. I mean, I had I introduced a new pin name like that week of and and she did well. You know, people came to the table, and you know, are you the one that was like trying to get this book out? I was like, Yep, that's me. I got 30 copies with a boo-boo on them, but I got 30 more, you know, just in time for SAS. So so I missed a lot. So I was like, this year I'm gonna do better, I'm gonna stay on top of it, you know. And so SAS 2027 is in July, but this this week is cover reveal for the anthology. Like today, I I made sure I went through into the group and goes like today the day we post, like I'm trying to be on top of it, right? This week, the announcements of who is in the anthology. There's a Facebook group of thousands of people, and Amy and Marie and others spend a lot of time in there talking about how excited, you know, this is coming, and this is we're doing this, and look, here who's coming, woo, and you know, and we're 10 months out, right? And the other thing, no, authors can start. No, I don't know when they start their pre-sales. That's the other thing I'm watching for. Um, because that's the other thing is, you know, many authors, many people go readers have already bought their books, they just go to the table and pick them up. Things like that, I think, are great. The other thing is, Tara, I'm gonna mention this, is author takeovers are starting like in October. Well, September, but I think authors are in October. Still, like all these months out, and we each have one night, we show up and we do our thing so all the readers can learn about us, right? And their readers are very good. Readers go to every table at SAS because there's always something there for them to sign. Whether I sign table assignments, they bring in canvas things they've painted, uh, they've got their covers for their Kindles. I signed so much stuff that was not my book, right? I signed a lot of books too, but I signed a lot of, anyways. So, from that aspect, you start early and with excitement. And of course, over 10 years, you've built a group where they know what to expect. I did see readers I've sent there before. We get, you know, oh, there you are, and hug, hug, hug. And so, yeah, uh, that's sort of what I see. That you you are not sort of above and putting it on and doing all this, but you are amongst all of us doing everybody's amongst everybody. Authors are amongst the readers, you're amongst the readers, and authors. That's what I see.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think an instinct that I think is very validating that Strategicon does, which is that kind of community first, not profit-driven, like make enough to cover costs, but not profit-driven. Strategicon basically is like hand-to-mouth from con to con. Not borrow, not like robbing Peter to pay Paul or anything like that. But you know, it's we usually only make enough to like get new cages for the for the new games and stuff, and have built up a large community over over like more than 30 years. But every department is a is a family. My my department at Strategic Con is is my family members and and close friends, like five couples at this point, and there is a community first uh aspect to it. That it's the only thing that keeps the con together. I mean, it helped us survive COVID and we had to go digital over COVID, and you know, we're three times a year, so you do have to maintain a strong sense of community and not and not like being profit-driven, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, 100%. And and like you're talking about costs and stuff. I think so many, it's it's I've seen a lot of that lately. The why are the table fees so high? Why are the ticket fees so high? So for SAS, what I do, and and what we've done is at the beginning of this, I said, I do not want to make money off authors who aren't making that much money in the first place. So the table fee is thought very thoroughly between the room rental fee, the food, everything, everything that they get, that money is for them. The reader stuff, whatever money comes in for ticket sales, that goes towards the readers or the experience or like the decorations for the after part, you know, whatever. And and so many people, it's so it's so hard to explain that there are some hotels that will charge you a hundred and fifteen dollars a gallon or a carafe of coffee, yeah, um, fifty dollars for a jug of lemonade, or you know, $150 for an extra table. Like it's insanity. So that's like another thing. So, like with the cost and stuff, and then you know, Jenna, you mentioned like the takeovers starting in October. Like, when you come to SAS, I say it all the time sell all the books, sell all the books. And the only way to do that is to interact with the readers and say, my group is your group, do a takeover, go in there, post however many times that you want, you know, just just that's that's where you go. And so we start early because we want people to be excited. We want them to tell their friends and bring them, and we want them to get to know the authors, so they will come and buy all the books. So buy all the books, buy the merch, buy, you know, whatever. And and I apologize because you had mentioned something about Eric the photographer. So his name is Eric Batterschell. He has been with us since the second one. Um and he's just like that. Like he's so sweet and he knows everybody. And I think that's another reason why SAS is just so I don't want to say popular, because there's always room for improvement. There's always room to get, you know, more readers and and all of that is the loyal, like the loyalty. Like, it is a family. Eric will remember you, he'll remember your table, he'll remember if last year you had this on it and you don't this year, like he's just such a nice guy. And the reason why I like want him back every single year. And also, like as far as like other things, um, I have I have built that family with the authors that I know and I trust. And if they're like, hey, this author is really, you know, like I I trust their recommendations, I trust them, like and and family, like you I think almost every author has seen me cry at an event because I'm just like genuine, like I feel bad, but I'm like, hey, you've seen me cry, so now we're like, you know, you're my sister for the rest of my life.
SPEAKER_01So and I and I want to point out that there's always a hiccup. You know, I don't know what the hiccups are going before, and I don't know how many hiccups you had while we were there. The only one I personally experienced was the tables weren't up for you and everybody else helping you, your heads were probably exploding. The rest of us, the group I was with that was standing outside the ballroom waiting, we were just drinking our coffee and chatting and like we didn't, we weren't mad, we weren't, you know. I mean, and I wonder if some events that starts to happen, you know, where maybe there's some authors that get upset or whatever, but like we weren't, we were just like, well, okay, because we knew you would probably plan for them to go up the night before and they didn't. Uh oh yeah, because I've been there, I was there one year where we set up the night before, and I know that you were talking about that might be an op and it just wasn't. And you know, you're I'm sort of like, well, I'm supposed to be set up by such and such time. Yep, I had a lot, but I I made it in time, even though I didn't get in there until about 9:30 or something.
SPEAKER_02You mean was it was it the hotel? Oh my god, it was yeah, I know how to tell fire when I see one.
SPEAKER_00So not the hotel. It was not the hotel. So I hire an outside vendor to bring tables in, and this woman gave me just a hard time from minute one. They were supposed to be there Friday. She calls me Friday and she's like, hey, we don't have, you know, it's tomorrow at three o'clock. I said, Oh no, unless you want my authors on the floor, like on a blanket selling their shit. Like, sorry, I don't know if I can cuss. Selling their stuff, selling their stuff on a blanket, which I know all my authors are so sweet, they would do it with a freaking smile on their face. Like a bazaar.
SPEAKER_02I love that.
SPEAKER_01Um, it would hurt my bersidus, but I would do it.
SPEAKER_02Welcome to the book bazaar.
SPEAKER_00We would have had chairs though. The hotel was doing the chairs. Um but uh as far as the hotel and why I wish that I could stay with them for the rest of my life is the minute I hung up with that woman, because she's we'll get there tomorrow at seven or eight o'clock. I said, no. No, no, no, no, 6:30. And so the hotel called her. They actually got me a refund back because of all the stress. But, anyways, they were supposed to be there at seven. I was looking at a completely empty ballroom at 745 in tears. 745 in tears. Like, I'm I kept telling everyone looking up. I'm I'm about to trend on threads. I'm about to trend on, it's gonna be I'm gonna be on threads. Like, it's there's just no, and I we had authors out there, and they were like, What's going on? I was like, you know, the hotel, like the whatever. So, anyways, a prime example of why I love SAS and we are a family, is the night before two people knew what was going on with the tables. I had a meeting with the volunteers after an after like the Friday night event we had. I had so many people come up to me, go, I'm helping you in the morning. When those tables get here, we're dropping them, we're going the next morning. We probably had about 40 people show up. I have like 12 volunteers, 40 like assistants, authors. Eric was there. Um, you you name it, like everyone was there. And when these jerks got there at 7:55, and authors are supposed to start setting up at 8 o'clock. Oh, they roll in the tables. I don't think Party Perfect knew what they were walking into because I was like, okay, the tables are here. And I turned around to go get the table layout. I was gone for like 10 seconds, 30 seconds, maybe. I turned back around, the volunteers, the assistants, the hotel, all of them were dropping tables, putting them down. Like a third of the room was already set up. And I was like, oh my gosh, these people did not have to come down here and work their asses off to set up tables that this company should be doing. Yeah. And I I literally balled my eyes out because I was like, they really love me. This is fantastic.
SPEAKER_02They love the event. No, they they love the event, it's all hands on deck. Like, that's the community you right. Like that, I love that. Like the show must go on mentality of like we make this work, we're gonna make this happen. We and like that's great, you know. Yeah, I love when you see a fire turn around into a community, like really fixing things like that's wonderful to see.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but you curated that, right? Like, that's you. People love you, and you know, and they know it's stressful for you, and they know that you know it's stressful for the authors too.
SPEAKER_00And so that I think the weekend would have been fantastic, except for that. And even my volunteer I went to dinner with her a couple weeks ago. Her name is Kim, and she's like, I was out in the hallway, we were having a good time, all the authors were fantastic, nobody was mad. And then when those tables were ready to go, my volunteers were in there. What do you need? What do you need? When you you know, and like helping. And so, um, there are some people who had no clue that it happened, and there are others who literally saw me have a panic attack, crying meltdown for like 12 hours straight. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02Romance authors are also just like so nice. I mean, I could think of some GMs at Strategicon who would be throwing an unholy fit if that were up in time. Just a few. Most GMs are fine.
SPEAKER_00I was so mad, and this is on Saturday morning, and I was like, on Monday, I'm gonna stay here till Monday, and I'm walking in there, and this and that, and I couldn't, I couldn't stay till Monday. And Monday morning I woke up and my contact at the hotel, she lives in Colorado, her name is Amy. She had a string of emails with her and Amber, Amber admitting it was her fault, and me getting a hefty chunk back of what and I was like, I was stressing, and you were in the background fighting for me. Like, I just I I don't know. Stuff like that. I get I get I get shocked. That was murdering. But then I'm like, I'm like, no, they're helping me because I've helped them. I've I've held them when they cried. I've you know watched their kids grow up, they watched my kids grow up. Like it's yeah, so I'm rambling.
SPEAKER_02It's awesome that the Marriott did that. No, it's great. Like that we we are the LA Hilton and the Hilton would not do that for us. Shout out to the Hilton. I love you guys, but you guys would not go to deck go to go to tech for me like that. Like I I mean they're wonderful for the most part.
SPEAKER_00We do call them the Hilton on occasion for no other I I could I was in Norfolk at I won't say it, but we were there for a while. I don't think they would have even cared. Oh, well, okay, well, well, too bad you don't have tables. Like they didn't care. Like the the Marriott, the lady who was working there, her name is Stephanie. This chick came to work in gym shoes, workout clothes, hair pulled back. She's like a manager of the hotel, and she's she's looking at them, she goes, drop the tables now. Like, drop the tables, and she's pulling the tables, and I'm just like, Oh, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I was probably gonna get a vendor in. Did they not have enough tables at the Marriott for you guys to rent from them?
SPEAKER_00So, another issue, not issue, if you rent tables from the hotel, they can charge you up to $150 per table. Oh, for sure, yeah. But they will let you ha have an outside vendor in so for like $30 a table. So that's what I do to cut costs down. Same thing for linens, they'll charge you like a crap ton for linens. A couple years ago when I took over by myself. I bought tablecloths myself, and I was like, I'll set up the tablecloths. My volunteers don't want to do it, I'll do it. I was like, I don't care, it's just a way to keep costs down. I can't imagine just the table costing $200 because it you know, hotel is like $150 plus plus, so that's $200. And then there's just no room left over in the budget for like anything else. Like, sorry, here's an apple. You can have an apple. So yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01If you want to use, if you want a microphone and you know, to be able to make an announcement over but that costs money if you want to. We have our own A B show. My sister's in charge of it. Separate room for panel, all of that costs.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. We will not use the Hilton's A B stuff because it's so expensive. That's why we have our own strategic. We might even have our own tables at this point. I have to ask, I think we might have our own tables.
SPEAKER_01Now, knowing that I had to bring a table, I just barely fit everything in my car. Sass is the one where I, you know, my I look like I'm the Jode family driving from Oklahoma out. My my car was stuffed to the rim with band books and and you pull up and I'm like, Where's your brand? Yeah, and like that, there's no table.
SPEAKER_00I hope you have a blanket to sit down on. That's right.
SPEAKER_01Well, you do a great job. Um, let's go ahead because I I brought this up because I was having this issue. This is this has really been a thing for me this week. I finished a book, it was a good book, the book which, and I went to the shelves that my husband built for me for Christmas to look at my next book, and I scanned every one of them and could not decide what to read, like a paralysis almost. Um, and so okay, I'm gonna go watch Netflix. And for several days in a row, I would go look and I could not choose my next read. I I didn't panic, but it was sort of like, why can't I decide what to read? And I posted an article about this over on our Substack and like, how do you decide what to read? And I will say I did finally pick up a book, and later I'll tell you how you know how it went, but it just made me wonder like, does anybody have this? Where it's like, I don't know if I have too many books. I mean, I have the pull the thing from the jar and it will say, read a book with a blue cover or read a book you bought in an event, right? So it narrows down, like, okay, these five books, I still couldn't do it. I still couldn't like I would say, well, no, not that tag. You know, I pull another one. Like, I just could not make a decision. So I'm just curious, like, do you ever have this?
SPEAKER_00Like, how do you decide what your next read is? I unfortunately don't have a lot of time to read, but there's a lot of times where I'm scrolling TikTok and it's those girls with like all the books, and like if you I'm really into true crime and thrillers and stuff like that. So usually it's something like that. But mine's I don't have physical books. Like, if I do, it's because you know you all have signed it and it's like sitting up on my shelves, and but usually like I'll you know, like a KU book will pop up, or you know, like I said, I love Adriana Locke and Melanie Harlow and Vyky Lynn. Like if they put something out, I'm like immediately like stop the book that I'm reading. But as far as like I have the same thing too, where I I will end up picking a book and I start to read it, and I'm like, eh, I don't know. And then I go to the next one, and like, eh, I don't know. And so I I don't know. I don't know how to pick. Um, I like the groups that you go in, and they're like very specific. Like, hey, I want a book where it's like enemies to lovers, but she like is an archaeologist and he owns a construction company and they live in Antarctica, blah blah blah. And someone's like, oh, this book, you know, like what?
SPEAKER_01Some of them do get very specific. I've seen stuff like that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. They do, and and then there's people who are like, Oh, you gotta read this book. And I was like, Does that really have like construction companies in in Antarctica?
SPEAKER_01And I don't know, I made that up, but they'll be like, No, it's but it's in Alaska, right? Close it up, right?
SPEAKER_02Penguin construction. Igloo construction for penguins. I don't understand. That's very specific. That's that's alarmingly specific. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00They'll go in there and say, this is exactly what I want. And someone will there's a book out there. Like, I want a dog to marry a you know a hamster. And they're like, oh, this book, you know, it's just crazy.
SPEAKER_02Come on in.
SPEAKER_00But yeah, that T VR. I don't even think I have a TBR. I think I have a Amazon where I go on and I'm like, which one? So maybe that's the issue too, is I just look at Amazon and all these books pop up instead of just saving the ones that interest me. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I've allowed work to guide my reading. I've been reading something, at least one text in the subgenre of the zine that we are working on, right? So I read Fat Tuesday for our romantic suspense zine. I read the first book of Aquitar for the second zine. And now I'm reading Ice Planet Barbarians for the third one. God help me. I read my co-workers. I've I've read something of Lynn's. I've read something of Susie's. I read a lot of Parish. I read a bunch of Jenna. I've been read I've read some Eva. Yeah, I generally, if an author's out there and available, I will read them. Or at least a little bit of theirs. I've read a lot of Marissa's stuff. She's in my my my group. And if she has something where she's working on it, I'll read that. So that seems to guide my reading. I the Chaos Gremlin's Guide to Reading, just do what work tells you to read. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but I wonder if that doesn't sound fun because for a while I was an agent and you know there's a lot of reading, but there was I'd never read anything on my shelf. I couldn't get to it. It was almost too much because I was reading for like work. I didn't like that very much. It was the part I was like. Well, no, the editing I liked the least, but reading submissions.
SPEAKER_02Like if I'm reading submissions for Sapphics of Saturn, right? Like that's reading for work. But like outside of that, when I'm reading like Ice Planet Barbarians, I don't have to read Ice Planet Barbarians to edit Sapphics with Saturn. I just want to because I want to be informed in order to write my intro. You know, so there's like a there's a kind of like, I don't know, I I like I kind of want to know the the zine, like I want to know the zine zone for that particular zine. And then there's the stuff I have to read, which is the submissions, which is a different animal.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I um I decided September, so I just tugged out all of my books that had like a witch in them because it seemed witchy weather, right? And there was one that had a witch, a vampire, a mystery. It was kind of light, rom-commy light, and it was set in New Orleans. This book should have been perfect. That means it ticks all stuff I enjoy. I started to read it and I had that like it's not that I didn't like it, I still want to read it, but it went back up on the shelf, and ultimately what I did was I JD Rob has a new book coming out this month, and I'm like three books behind her. So I read JD Rob, Jenna. Go read JD Rob. Here's what happened. I picked it up, I picked it up, and I and immediately I read three chapters and I stopped because it was bedtime, it was after midnight to go to bed. And so, and because I analyzed my like what is happening here, and I think what it was is that it's no work to read those books at this point because I know these people in this world so well. Whereas if I pick up a new book and an author, like this witchy book that should have ticked all my boxes, didn't know the author, never read anything, you know. But when I picked up the JD Robb book, I know you know it starts with the crime, which is always interesting, but I know all the people, like it's not a lot of work, right? Yeah, it's sort of like I'm gonna go to a place I know. Um I don't reread books, and I heard people who will do that. They're like, Oh, yeah, I read books. I've never done that, but I feel like this is that. Like, I'm gonna go to the place I know, so it's not a lot of work.
SPEAKER_02So I think it's on Corn Death is the book I that's how I feel reading Erna Semper now, because I know Parish's world so well that when I go to read a chapter or something that Parish has put up, it's like, oh, I know these people, like a Dardana chapter is so comforting, you know. I can read that for bed. I don't have to think very hard, even though like his world is challenging, it's challenging in a lot of ways, it's challenging culturally, and there's a lot to keep track of, but my brain's happy to do that because I like speculative fiction, so it's it's fine, but you know, there is a comfort aspect to it. I know these people, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think that's why readers a lot of times like series, right? Yes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I like to talk about the same people personally, yeah. You know, the other thing is I don't pick up a book unless the first chapter grabs me. So I like physical books and I like to go into a book and I'll read that first chapter right in the bookstore. Yes, I do, Barnes and Noble. Come at me. I won't pick it up unless I like that first chapter. Elaine and I will, my friend Elaine, we'll stand in the in the aisle and just like read that first chapter and be like, ooh, we really like this, you know, and then we'll we'll go and we'll read half of it, right? So I I I recommend buying your books like that. Like, go and like read that first chapter, see if you'll love it, and then it'll excite you. And then you fought the book and just go read it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. I I I like to reread books when I'm like in a slump. So there's two. I don't know if y'all remember Gail McHugh from like 2013. She wrote a book called Collide. I never like the cover, I was like, I don't like this cover, I'm never reading it. It is one of my all-time favorite books. I know she kind of went off the deep end a little bit, but it's one of my all-time favorite books. Yeah. I love Gavin Blake, he is my ultimate book boyfriend. And then the other one I go back and read is my own. It's called Undeniable. I love it. Um, yeah, I just I read it and I'm like, I can't believe he wrote this. And I love Ryder. He's just like, I don't, I and I think he mimics like Gavin Blake a little bit because they both want what they don't think they deserve. So I'm like, they're like, we don't, I don't deserve you. And you know, and I I love those. That's why I was like team pacey for Dawson's Creek, because he just never thought he deserved Joey, and Dawson was like, She's mine, and I'm like, You're a jerk.
SPEAKER_02I hate it when an author goes off the deep end. That's always like the that's so bad. Like one of my favorite authors, Rob Thurman, had got a TBI and just just completely spun out before she finished her series. It was so sad. And you can just see that she would like like her, she had injured her brain and was like yelling at people on I think Goodreads don't want that. It was really, really sad. I was like, Where's your family taking your phone away from you? What's going on?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Oh my gosh. I don't I know she was like it was like drugs, and I mean she came out and said it, and then she wrote a book called Amber to Ashes, and then she was writing the second one because it was a cliffhanger and never never put it out. And so she was she was an amazing writer. Um I don't know, but she gave me Gavin Blake, so I'm I'm fine with that.
SPEAKER_02You're you're helping her live on in some way in the in the book world, right? By like bringing that legacy through to your own characters, right?
SPEAKER_00And I hope she's okay.
SPEAKER_02So, Amy, we like to treat our co-hosts, our guests as co-hosts. So we were we're wondering if you have any questions for us or a topic you'd like to cover or or circle back to.
SPEAKER_00Um no, I mean, like I was just kind of sitting here and like you all talking about the SAS signing and like you know, what makes it work or whatever. Like, what are what do you guys like to have? Or what like what could organizers do better to make it, you know, comfortable for you? That's what I want. I want to make sure everyone's like comfortable and to know that like you know, we're there for them. But like, what do you what do you guys look in signings before?
SPEAKER_01I mean, obviously not ones that crap out, but you know, well I I did want to point out because I don't think I said it earlier, is that one of the things you're very communicative, right? What when we watch these, when we watch these conferences crash out, a lot of times authors are saying they haven't heard anything. You know, it's been my haven, and you know, you're you're always letting us know what's going on, good, bad, ugly, great, whatever. You know, here's what you need to do. Maria's the same. Here's the stuff that needs to go out, you know, like okay, great. Because I need that. I totally need that. Um, but what I like to have at events is a bar, which Sass always has. We didn't have it this year, but it wasn't in the room this year because that's the one question we get is where would you like your table? And I'm like, near the bar's nice, because you know, but and it's there was no bar in the in the signing room like when I've been there in the past, but you know, there were there were there was a bar in the hotel for sure, and there was, and this is not like I still have to pay for my drinks, right? But like all the other stuff, there was there was, you know, they had their little mini bars set up and someone there pulled the line or whatever you wanted. So I do enjoy that.
SPEAKER_00And I think, and to add on a little tiny bit, like a little real quick, is another thing I do at SAS, and you know this. I sent out a preference form, and it's like, what are you allergic to? Where do you want to sit? Who do you want to sit by? Who you who don't you want to sit by? You know, what you know, all of this. And so, like when you're like, I want to sit by the bar, and I'm like, okay, well, where's the table by the oh, we're gonna put her right there. So, like I rely heavily.
SPEAKER_01I was right in front of it. You know, it's easy to get people to you because you know, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00A bar.
SPEAKER_01I'm gonna have to make sure I have an extra. Put Jenna by the bar.
SPEAKER_02Put Jenna by the bar by the water. I know it makes me sound like a lunch, but for events, you know, like one is don't this is not probably because your event is all signing, right? At events recently, I've noticed people closing the exhibitor floor really early, and I don't think that that's good. Uh StratCon can do this sometimes too, where like it closed it at six, and I just think that that's not a good idea. Like, I think we should stay, we keep the exhibitor floor open later. I think that people are are more likely to go eat dinner and then like wanna wanna cruise through afterwards. So I I would I would actually recommend closing for dinner and then opening back up again for like kind of a night market. Those are my big advice to conventions that I've seen that have an exhibitor floor. Yeah, the problem being that like if even if artist alley or your flea market or whatever it is is outside of that, they tend to close down when the exhibitor floor does because the traffic dies. So I remember I was in artist alley at a con recently and like the exhibitor floor closed at three. And it was like, okay, artist alley's packing up, but it the con was still going, you know, and it was very like, oh, this is I don't think that we should be closing all this stuff this early. I think it should be like the last things to close down. So that that's this probably doesn't really apply to you, but that's my advice to event organizers out there, including the my own event, including Strategic Con. I do think that we should have later hours for the for the dealer room or exhibitor floor. The other one is that I wish you would bring a SAS to Southern California. We have like no romance events, we have no romance events, girl.
SPEAKER_01It's very difficult to find romance events out west. Weird, weirdly, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Cross them cross the the Rocky Mountains and come bring something over here. It is a desert of romance events over here. I don't know why. I mean, I know it's really difficult for to work with six convention hotels in California. It is nightmarish and expensive.
SPEAKER_00And and you learn a lot. I think my husband would kill me because I've been staying in Virginia in my little bubble, and then I was like, hey, I want to do one in the Midwest because I'm from Chicago. So Maria lives in St. Louis, like St. Charles, and I was like, what's going on out there? And she's like, no, you should totally do it. Um, I did that, and then a month and a half later was SAS here, and I make the one like I made St. Louis like a smaller, when I say smaller, just not as many events. And then um, you know, Sass is usually like Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And then I'm doing one in Savannah next September. Um, yeah. So I have Sass in July and Savannah in September. And my husband's like, you're insane. Do you know what you're doing? Like, space them out. I was like, nobody wants to travel in the winter. So I think if I added California, he would, I don't think he would have divorced me because we're, you know, like we we really like each other. Like, you know, you love somebody, but like when you really like you like them, like I like him. So I want to keep him around, but keep him around. Just a little bit. I always tell him, I was like, you're still worth more lives than dead. So you're good for that. He's like, you're insane. But that would that would be fun. He's actually in California right now. He's in um he flew in SNA, and I can't think of it. Is that John Wayne Airport? So he's out there for work right now. So it's near my mom.
SPEAKER_01Um is that Burbank?
SPEAKER_02SNA is Anaheim.
SPEAKER_00Anaheim.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Yeah. That's that's right, that's where my mom like Anaheim's Ana Ana, basically.
SPEAKER_00Okay. I'm gonna tell him though. I'm gonna say, hey, how about California? I think but not the Hilton.
SPEAKER_02No, not the not in LA proper. I wouldn't recommend doing LA proper. I would recommend being, I mean, if you'd ever did it, I would recommend being out in the the in the the more sort of like in the like not Imperial County, but San Bernardino or something like that. Uh, near the Ontario airport, because if there is, there are cheap hotels out there, you could do something out there for a romance that would be probably not more comparable to what you would see in Virginia, and you would still have plenty of space. But there's there's no romance events out here, you would have no competition. You would it's basically LA Festival of Books. That's what you would be competing with, is like these really big, like Thunderdome signing events with like every single genre under the sun with literary people, you know. Like that's what you would be competing with, and that that's not really competition. When when we do the zines, we put the the like romance events in like Rachel goes and finds a bunch of them, and we put them it put the list of what's coming in the next three months, and they're all on the other side of the Rocky Mountains. There's nothing out here.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we have a romance bookstore down there somewhere that maybe they would um co co-help or whatever. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Are you thinking of the ripped bodice, Jenna? In Culver City?
SPEAKER_01Whatever's the one, whatever's the one that Chris Kirsten went to.
SPEAKER_02Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, uh that wasn't Ripped Bodice. What was it? Um That was out here in like Redondo, I think. I have to ask her. But yeah, there's there is one in Culver City that's quite famous called the Ripped Bodice, but yeah, um, they do like little things, they're very cute. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Anywho. I would I would also probably get like lynched by the the SAS authors. They'd be like, I'm not going all the way to California. Or there's some that are like, I'm gonna follow you wherever you go. You're going to California. Oh my god. Okay, let's go. And I probably like anxious the whole time because St. Louis, there were probably 70% new to me authors, like signing wise. And so that gives me anxiety because I'm like, okay, I hope you're a good person and I hope this goes well, and I hope that you're nice. And they were like St. Louis author, like it was it was fantastic. But the whole time I'm like, where is my family? Where are my people?
SPEAKER_02Like yeah, yeah. It'll be like we're trying to run strategic on each other Virginia, right?
SPEAKER_01I mean, I I sat at the signing, the anthology signing. The woman next to me had come in from like Ohio. That's drivable.
SPEAKER_02That's drivable, you know. Like I I could come to SaaS and sell books, right? Like it would be across country drive, right? I would have to ship books to myself, you know. You have to ship books. I ship books. You can ship them to me, and you can do that, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I I tell everybody you can send me your books and I'll I'll have them at your table the day of signing. So that's awesome.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, maybe it is less than marriage than I think, but it to me it sounds very far away.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, oh it's that went wrong at Killer Nashville, not this year, but the year before there was an author, Ellen Butler, who did she's the one that told me about Sass. She went there early, maybe her first year. She writes mystery now. She went to Killer Nashville a couple years ago. I'm pretty sure that was the event, and her books never showed up, they got shipped back, and yeah, so she had no books. Oh yeah. That would make me cry.
SPEAKER_02Anyway, I don't know how I would get my banner on the plane. I think they'd they'd think it was a an a weapon or something.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I don't know. You'd have to check it, probably. Yeah. My banner. So normally we like to do some sort of hot take, and I l got three that I heard recently. So let's go. Dor dark romance uh policing, and that is not them policing, it's other people policing people who enjoy these toxic morally gray characters in fiction, as if there's something wrong with them. And you know, I mean, most people don't think there's people wrong who read horror, maybe a little bit, right? You know, um, or people who love to read oh, really gruesome mystery crime thrillers, they're okay. But if you want to read Morally Gray Men in Romance, and of course, if you don't read Morally Gray romance, if you read the perfect guy romance, then there's a problem there too, because you have too high expectations of men. So let's face it, ladies. There's you know, you can't win either way, but anyway, what are your thoughts around this? People sort of questioning women who love these mafia romances, these guys who, you know, don't like anybody except for the one lady.
SPEAKER_00I I'm so exhausted from policing, like whether it's you know, events, books, anything like that. The biggest thing here is like don't it's sad all the time, don't yuck someone else's yum. Like that's that's not your business. Just because they like a mafia and this guy goes around and kills everybody and you know does whatever to the girl, that doesn't mean that they think that way. Like, books are meant to take you to a different place. It's it's almost like, are you gonna tell them, like, oh, you shouldn't go watch, you know, this movie because it's got violence in it? Like, what's the difference? Because you know, they probably watch those movies. I watch true crime documentaries all the time. My husband comes in and he looks at me, he's like, What are you what are you watching? And so, but like that doesn't mean that I'm gonna go out and you know, murder somebody, but like the policing, like who cares? Like, why is it why is it your business? Why are we like judging people all the time and women judging other women? Like, it's it's so crazy. We get enough of that, and you know, shoot. If someone's gonna write it and someone's gonna like it, and just just let them be. Like, it's I don't know who's doing this because I've never heard about this.
SPEAKER_01It's like give me some names and I'll it's one of those things that goes around the TikTok usually.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, purity culture in romance is really irritating. Like, I find this kind of stuff a lot, actually. Like, I'm uh you know, Captain Audience on our on our Instagram, and I'll run into this kind of crap, like a lot of weird purity culture type stuff. I think most people don't understand the difference between like a moment where a cultural critique is warranted, and there are those moments exist, right? Like sometimes something is a trend in romance where you have to be like, hmm, that seems weird. Maybe we should talk about that. And I don't like this, and nobody should like this, right? Like I have a preference against I don't like alpha holes, but I never really go on Instagram and talk about books with alpha holes that I don't like. And I'm not here to police that. I think it's fine if other people want to read it, right? It's not I don't read those books, so I don't really talk about it. I just say, like, that's not my that's not a trope I like. That's fine. Right. It's not I don't make a cultural critique of it because I don't think that one is warranted, right? If I ran into this a lot and I thought that there was like really like room for a cultural critique, I might say something about it. I might write an essay on it. You know, I might write a blog article, right? And I have there have been moments in sci-fi romance where I wanted to write a room of like a blog article about like, hey, I think that our ideas of a sci-fi romance are a little limiting. Here is here are my thoughts on it, because it's something I know about, right? Like I have I have room to make a cultural critique. I don't read dark romance, I don't understand why people are policing dark romance. It's it's almost like it's like folks think if if there's too much of this trope over here, they're not gonna get more of the trope that they like. So they have to police other people so that they can get more of the thing that they like. And that's frustrating, you know. Like me saying cozy is bad. I want everything to be running from from like laser fire all the time. I want to be cozy is toxic because I'm like fighting. But I know that there's plenty romantic suspense out there. I don't need to destroy cozy in order to get what I want, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I am well. The first thing is content, right? They say something, they're gonna get attention, and that's in this day and age, that's what people want on the internet, right? Right, but the other part of me is like, man, if we were gonna police anything for me, it would be daddy's best friend trope. Like, that is the one that I for me. I'm like, that's the one that gives me the ick, right? That's the one I don't like, but like I'm not gonna go out there. I mean, I just said it gives me the ick, but you know what? You like it, you read it. Like there's some sort of universal fantasy, there's something about it that people like. I don't understand it, but who am I to tell you not to read it like it or whatever? I know it's popular as a ghostwriter. I've had to write them, you know, and it was very difficult because I I there's something about it I don't like, but you know, uh it's like who cares? Who c who cares that Jenna doesn't like that? I do. So I'm gonna read right, but I'm not gonna read it. I'm gonna avoid it. That and the secret child. I don't like that one either. Um just It just breaks my heart for the guy every time. And that's I don't want that angst, right? Like, so I I it's just the same thing. You don't like romance, don't read romance. You don't like dark romance, then read sweet. But you know, like, who are you to go out there and and and decide there's something wrong with women who like this? That's right. That's as if they don't know the difference. You know, do the people who love Game of Thrones know there are no dragons in the world? I don't know. Maybe not. We should probably, we should probably go warn them, right? Where are you know the thrillers out there, the Jack Reachers and all that guy? Maybe we should, you know, do they want to do that? Do they just want to be able to beat people up? Nobody does that. Never one of those, you know, books for women written by women, let's, you know, question their their thinking.
SPEAKER_02This is where forward and content warning forward marketing is really important, right? Because I don't care what you have a lot in that story as long as you warn people appropriately, right? If it's, you know, like imprisonment and kidnapping and gore and we warn people about it, awesome. If it's daddy's best friend and you put it in your marketing and people are into that, awesome. If you surprise people on sweet romance, and then it's like daddy's best friend and like a bunch of spanking, you're you're you're you're lying to people, and then you could have a problem. You don't want to surprise people, but yeah, sorry, go ahead.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. No, I would just I just I don't know. Um I'm like, why is it why is it your problem? Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, and I tell my kids this all the time when they get like upset about stuff and they're like, I'm sorry, I feel I was like, your feelings are valid. Like, so like your feelings about you know daddy's best friend, that's valid. That's that's you, but but like you don't go and and insult people who do like that. You just is like, no, that's not for me. I don't read I don't read paranormal, like paranormal stuff. I don't write it either, but like I don't and I don't know if I could get into it, but I wouldn't say to somebody, ooh, you like paranormal romance, like why would you, you know, and that you know, that's not real light, like that's just not yeah. I don't know. I would I just I I would never I would just never tell people how to feel or put them down, or and you never know. Some of those people could be like, oh, is something like wrong with me? You know, you never know where someone's at mentally, and when you treat them like that, it's like why it's it's not your business, it's really not.
SPEAKER_01So they're only gonna dig in deeper, right? You tell somebody who enjoys dark romance, a toxic guy, they're gonna do well. I would just say read Weathering Heights. Go back and read that thing you were forced to read and tell me that that is not a toxic romance, right?
SPEAKER_02It's like I think people need to come at each other with fewer assumptions and actually ask, like, why do you like this? Why do you actually enjoy this? You know, like if you have a genuine question, like why do you like paranormal romance? This seems really wow, this seems really toxic to me. Like, why do you like this? And if it's a genuine question, I think you can have a genuine answer. I I was asking my my sister's boyfriend recently, like, what is the appeal of going to like Disneyland over and over again? Like, I don't get that. I'm genuinely asking him, what's the appeal to that? And he gave me a genuine answer, which seemed quite emotionally valid. It's not my experience, but I understand it better now, you know? It's not, it's still not how I would function because I would get sick of it, but I can understand somebody not getting sick of it, you know? Like maybe ask people genuine questions. Why do you enjoy daddy's best friend? And come at it with real curiosity and open-mindedness instead of being like, you're a toxic person who obviously has been abused your entire life, and this stuff should not exist.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and not to change your own mind, right? Like it's not, I'm gonna ask you this and you're gonna change my mind. It's not that at all, it's just trying to understand, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, like genuinely wanting to understand another person's experience and knowing it's not going to be the same as yours, and that they're not trying to convince you necessarily, not saying you need to read dark romance, they're saying I like it for these reasons for that fine, yeah, right?
SPEAKER_00It's an it's an escape. Like we read books to escape a little bit. Sometimes we read books to get you know, spark our writing, but for the most part, that's what you're doing. And so, you know, why I don't know that that kind of stuff just baffles me. I see some stuff on threads, which I I will stand on all 10 toes and say threads is so toxic. It really is. I was just gonna tell you stay off threads.
SPEAKER_01Well, no, we get it from a YouTuber that goes on threads and they're doing it for us.
SPEAKER_02Yes, we're gonna learn threads for us.
SPEAKER_00You see this dog. I would rather go on goodreads and read my reviews than go on threads. Yeah, yeah, you too. So yeah, no, don't yok somebody's yum, and it and if you don't like it, just don't see anything.
SPEAKER_02Speaking of somebody's yum, what are our book and movie recommendations? What are we reading and watching this week, folks?
SPEAKER_01Oh true crime document.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, right, yeah.
SPEAKER_01My sister just recommended one, can't remember what it's called, but I wrote it down. Pastor's wife, I just watched. That's what she told me to watch.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, that it's it's good, it's very good. It's it's like a mystery, but then like the husband, it's good, yeah. Yeah, definitely good. Um, so that I mean, I just do that. I I just turn on like true crime documentaries, I'll listen to like podcasts, document, you know, like crime junkie. I love it. And then reading, I I don't have a new book at the moment. Um let me let me look at my Kindle. But yeah, no, I I I don't. Oh, I was reading Come Away With Me by Kristen Froby because I went and seen her uh movie premiere with Novel Grounds a couple weeks ago, and I was kind of doing a reread because Passion Flicks, you know, made it into a movie. So that's that's what I have up right now, is Come Away With Me. I mean that one's an old old book, like one of the first ones I ever read romance-wise after Fifty Shades of Grey. So yeah, so it's an older book, um, but like it was really cool to see that it it got turned into a movie, and so I'm I'm reading that again.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Passion Flicks picked up a lot of the people that were big right around COVID, you know, K Bomberg and and all those. And more recently, they're doing J.R. Ward's Black Dagger, which season two comes out in October. And yeah, those are fun. Those are fun. Yeah, she'd do one of mine. Yeah, send her a book. Do one of mine, I'll be cheaper than the rest of those.
SPEAKER_02I think genuinely, Jenna, I do think the Valentine Mysteries would make a good series.
SPEAKER_01I think they would be fun.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think each each book could make a like a like a series, like a series of like a season, right? Like 10 episodes for the mystery, and you have one couple and their romance. Like, I think that's a very good through line for a series.
SPEAKER_01I wrote that because I was a big fan of heart to heart. So like um uh anyway. Well, you know, I'm reading On Core and Death by uh JD Rob because she's got a new book coming out, and I have to catch up. And this one's fun, it's about a a movie, two movie stars who are apparently happily married. Um that's rare, and they're at having a party, and he brings her her champagne, and but then she's gonna go sing with her new co-star. So she hands the champagne back to her husband who brought it to her, and he drinks it and he drops dead. And that's as far as I've gotten. So except for this start of the investigation. So, like, I'm interested because what we know so far, I'm like, how did this cyanide get in there? Anyway, so I'm reading that. We started watching last night, what's it called? It's an anne rice based on an an rice, tell Talamascar, Talamasca, something or other, which Talamasca is if it's Ann Rice. Yeah, so we watched the first two episodes of that thinking, and you know, the nod to interview with the vampire was kind of fun to watch. I don't know if we'll watch the whole thing, but we finished everything out. Well, no, Wednesday. So tonight is Ted Lasso and Reacher.
SPEAKER_02So we will I'm reading the case of the paraphex and labor broker by Erna Semper as a palette cleanser for the fact that I am reading a lot of sapphics of Saturn submissions. Yeah, a lot, yeah. It's a lot of a lot of sapphic spice up in here.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's the thing about asking doing a call for something that's so specific. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's interesting to see how people interpret it, but you do have a lot of the same, I think. I would imagine.
SPEAKER_02I have a running commentary to just my a couple of girlfriends of just sort of like, well, yep, I just read that. And oh, that that that just happened to me. Like, what are you doing? I did this to myself.
SPEAKER_01Well, I'm gonna move on. Real quick news Starlight and Spellbound, our first fall anthologies coming September 14th. It is available for pre-sale now. Really happy with this one. The cover's great, Tara. Tara made it. Thank you. And I think the stories are great. Uh, Sapphix's Saturn call is closed, so no more for you to read, Tara. That'll come out in November. But Vows and Valentines will be an anthology, call for anthology that opens October to publish in January. That's 10,000 words or less, three chili peppers or more spice with vows and valentines in it. Um, and our call for our next easing will be Oaths and Obsessions, which will be edited by me. And that will be some sort of dark. Speaking of calling out dark romance, it'll be dark with some sort of group, organization, mafia, secret society, academic, whatever. If they have to make an oath and they're obsessed, we'll look at it. I'll look at it. That opens in January. All the calls for anthologies and zines are posted on our substack or on our website at tenderandtemptingtales.com.
SPEAKER_00I did not know that you guys did these anthologies. Like I'm that's pretty cool. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Uh we are Tender and Tempting Tales. You can find us on Instagram as TenderTenity Tales. That's Tender Tempting Tales without the ant. You can also find us on Substack as Tender and Tempting Tales. You can find all of our all of our calls for anthologies there if you are a writer, but also if you are a reader and you love bookish things, you can find an article about romance written by Jenna, by me, by guest writers every single week. And you can also find the podcast there. Um uh in addition, you can also find us on Facebook. We have our Facebook readers group, and you'll join us there. And hopefully you might see a Facebook takeover if the if the writers are into that. I am asking that. And we will, of course, our next podcast episodes will be a series with the starlit authors. You'll be able to hear from all of us and hear what was in our stories. And Jenna.
SPEAKER_01Amy, thank you so much for being with us today. I see we've kept you an hour and a half, but it was so fun. Enjoyed talking with you and learning about your books, and a reminder to everybody. You can find her Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and Threads, even though Threads is toxic. She's at Threads. Um, all under either author Amy Marie or the sexy and sassy signing. And again, SAS tickets for 2027 are in sale, and we'll have a link to that as well. Because you're gonna want to come and buy all the books. Bring your wagon. Buy all the books. I love the people who walk by with wagons full of books. That's I think it's awesome. Anyway, yeah, peace, love, and happily ever after.